How many hours of sleep do you get? Is it enough for you? What is a decent hour for you to be in bed by?

How many hours of sleep do you get? Is it enough for you? What is a decent hour for you to be in bed by?

9 hours a day

My sleep ranges from 6 to 8 hours, but whether that's enough depends on many other factors.

Is the amount of sleep you get enough for YOU? Everybody is different. Some people can sleep for only a few hours, others need a complete night's uninterrupted sleep. Is what YOU allow yourself enough for YOU?

It should be 9 hours. If you do not get 9, you will catch up anyway during the day or later. Like sleeping in the train. - it is called rebound effect. I took psychology 8 years ago. Wow still remember the term.

Is the amount of sleep you get enough for YOU? Everybody is different. Some people can sleep for only a few hours, others need a complete night's uninterrupted sleep. Is what YOU allow yourself enough for YOU?

The earlier one goes to sleep, the less sleep he or she will need. Best time to go to bed by is before midnight at the LATEST.. Restorative sleep takes place between 11PM and 2AM.. I personally notice i need 8 hours on average. Its not about quantity, its more about quality.

By the way, if someone notices they need many hours of sleep to feel refreshed the next day, then they are most probably low in vitamin B12.. If you take a sublingual form of the active B12 (methylcobalamin) 1mg, you will notice that you will wake up earlier automatically and feel as if you slept 10 hours, with a very positive sharp mind and lots of energy... Vit B12 is necessary to support the sleep wake cycles, it also promotes a deeper state of sleep during the night, while providing energy and better coordination during the day..

i get about 6-8hrs of sleep a day, its not always enough for me...

It varies for me. Sometimes I may go to bed really late and be so wide awake after only 5 hours of sleep, however other times I may go to bed early and have a hard time waking up given that I have slept for 8 hours.

Most of the time i will have my 8 hours of sleep and still be tired when i wake up...

I noticed that for me, if I get 9 hours of sleep at night, I feel much better the next day. Unfortunately, for me it doesn't always happen, and some nights I'd be lucky if I get 3-4 hours of sleep, but I guess it all comes with the territory.

The interersting thing about sleep is, that research has shown that if you are sleep deprived (haven't slept enough for the past nights), you will catch up on the sleep, but the number of hours you catch up doesn't necessarily have to be all the hours you missed. For example, if you sleep about 9 hours per night on average, and 1 night you were craming for a test, and only had 2 hours of sleep (you missed 7 hours), the next night many people feel much more refreshed if they sleep 2 additional hours (for 11 hours total).

P.S. I am not advocating craming for the test the last minute. ;)

I get 7-8 hours of sleep most of the time. That's enough for me.

8 hours of sleep:)

Most definetely around six to eight hours would be a sufficient amount for me, depending on the quality of that night's sleep. If its a peaceful, freeminded rest, usually six hours not more or else i feel weaker than if i would sleep less, kind of strange but true.

Who has time to waste 9 hours of sleep? I usually get 7 but lately it feels like i'm running at least 2 to 3 hours short on sleep.

I think any time before 12 is a decent hour to get into bed. Even 12 is good (and very usual for me). Unfortunately, there are some nights I head to bed at 1 or around that time and I think that because I look at the clock before I drift off into sleep I feel that i cheated myself of sleep time and feel extremely sleepy the next day. And I always promise myself in the morning that when I get home I'm heading to bed for a couple of hours of rest...never happens, of course.

On Shabbat, i go to bed at around 10 + or - an hour, but I have trouble getting myself up even at 8 the next morning to get to shul. I feel so ashamed and again resort to promising myself that the following week I will be stronger and force myself out of bed by 8 to get to shul by 9, no matter how hard it may be.

According to Rambam a healty person should be able to sleep 6 hours and function normaly, an ill person should of course have more. I sleep 6 hours a day, thats good for me

Here is a study relating to this topic:
Sleep less, live longer?
Increased Death Rate Associated
With Sleeping 8 Hours or More
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2002/02_08_Kripke.html

and here is an excerpt from an article which caught my attention:
Adults – For most adults, 7 to 8 hours a night appears to be the best amount of sleep, although the amount ranges from 5 hours to 10 hours of sleep each day depending on the individual. It should be noted that a recent research study conducted by Boston University School of Medicine found that study participants that reported sleeping less than 6 hours or more than 9 hours a day had an increased incidence of diabetes, compared to those who slept 7-8 hours (see references & resources (http://www.helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm#online_diabetes_study)).

some more excerpts:
Getting seven to eight hours of sleep each night promotes health and well-being.

In a study of nearly 7,000 people followed for 15 years, those who regularly slept seven to eight hours each day lived significantly longer than those who regularly slept fewer hours.
(source) (http://vanderbiltowc.wellsource.com/dh/content.asp?ID=555)

Here is a study relating to this topic:
Sleep less, live longer?
Increased Death Rate Associated
With Sleeping 8 Hours or More
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2002/02_08_Kripke.html

and here is an excerpt from an article which caught my attention:
Adults – For most adults, 7 to 8 hours a night appears to be the best amount of sleep, although the amount ranges from 5 hours to 10 hours of sleep each day depending on the individual. It should be noted that a recent research study conducted by Boston University School of Medicine found that study participants that reported sleeping less than 6 hours or more than 9 hours a day had an increased incidence of diabetes, compared to those who slept 7-8 hours (see references & resources (http://www.helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm#online_diabetes_study)).

some more excerpts:
Getting seven to eight hours of sleep each night promotes health and well-being.

In a study of nearly 7,000 people followed for 15 years, those who regularly slept seven to eight hours each day lived significantly longer than those who regularly slept fewer hours.
(source) (http://vanderbiltowc.wellsource.com/dh/content.asp?ID=555)
very interesting health benefits of sleep, I myself get about 6-8....which is enough to get my engine started, great to catch up on the weekends sometimes:party39:

The earlier one goes to sleep, the less sleep he or she will need. Best time to go to bed by is before midnight at the LATEST.. Restorative sleep takes place between 11PM and 2AM.. I personally notice i need 8 hours on average. Its not about quantity, its more about quality.

By the way, if someone notices they need many hours of sleep to feel refreshed the next day, then they are most probably low in vitamin B12.. If you take a sublingual form of the active B12 (methylcobalamin) 1mg, you will notice that you will wake up earlier automatically and feel as if you slept 10 hours, with a very positive sharp mind and lots of energy... Vit B12 is necessary to support the sleep wake cycles, it also promotes a deeper state of sleep during the night, while providing energy and better coordination during the day..


Vitamin B12 deficiency is almost impossible to get unless you are a very, very strict vegeterian. Usually people who do suffer from Vitamin B12 deficiency are those individuals who had had their stomach removed, (since it is the intrinsic factor that promotes Vitamin B12 absorption) or those who have no illeum(since that is the site that absorption takes place in). This results in pernicious anemia

How many hours of sleep do you get? Is it enough for you? What is a decent hour for you to be in bed by?

You will be suprised how many people suffer from insomnia. Its like every other person is on Ambien or Lunesta

Vitamin B12 deficiency is almost impossible to get unless you are a very, very strict vegeterian. Usually people who do suffer from Vitamin B12 deficiency are those individuals who had had their stomach removed, (since it is the intrinsic factor that promotes Vitamin B12 absorption) or those who have no illeum(since that is the site that absorption takes place in). This results in pernicious anemia

Dude, you can trust me that with todays diets and antibiotic abuse, everyone's ileums are not in tip top shape to absorb enough B12. Secondly, extra never hurts, only optimizes body functions (its water soluble anyway), worse case you have expensive urine :). But trust me you will feel AMAZING!! Our GI systems are the worst they have ever been in history. Lack of digestive enzymes, low acidity thats masked as high acidity and made worse by ant acids.. Taking prevacid, nexxium, pepcid or any other acid reducer will totally rob you of not just B12 but other nutrients.. Antbiotics finish the job and bring your body to its knees. Oh not to forget those good old birth control pills that block B6 and B12 among other B vitamins.. Stop believing the fudged information thats so widely distributed. Its a front for Big Pharma, they don't want anyone to know that deficiencies or subclinical deficiencies exist.. In Russia B vitamin injections came with inserts that listed all the various diseases they CURED.. Yes the "C WORD" that the FDA HATES.. FDA has gotten a law passed that states that "Only approved DRUGS can control or cure a disease". So if someone has scurvy (Vit C deficiency) you can be put in jail for telling them that an orange can cure them of scurvy.. Because now you have declared the orange a DRUG and it hasn't been approved by the FDA for that purpose... YES MY FRIEND.. I am NOT JOKING.. Read Kevin Tredeau's book..

You will be suprised how many people suffer from insomnia. Its like every other person is on Ambien or Lunesta

The further screwing of the American public... Sleeplessness is the final frontier before complete body system collapse. Neuro-immune dysfunction y patom P*ZDETS... Ambien isn't bad for short term use to allow the body to get some desperately needed sleep, but its a bad choice for allergic or chemically sensitive people. In those I would go with a Russian benzodiazepine thats not habit forming (shocking isnt it?). The US developes habit forming drugs PURPOSEFULLY.. Then they regret it cause they end up making them controlled substances that make matters worse, so then they started making non habit forming drugs that have worse side effects (especially at the horse dosages they prescribe here). European studies have shown that US produced pharmaceuticals work better and have MUCH fewer side effects in less than half the dosages that are prescribed!! In some cases even in quarter doses.. I am not advocating most of the poison, but when Anti-arrhythmic drugs state side effects such as: Arrhythmia, and Cardiac Arrest (sudden death), then whats the point of taking the medication if it can actually CAUSE the very same problem that your taking it for!!!

One thing I hate is a stupid pharmacist. My cousins wife just graduated pharmacy school and now regrets it. She realized that they are poison pushers and it disgusts her.. But she will work as one anyway. So much schooling shouldn't go to waist.

Dude, you can trust me that with todays diets and antibiotic abuse, everyone's ileums are not in tip top shape to absorb enough B12. Secondly, extra never hurts, only optimizes body functions (its water soluble anyway), worse case you have expensive urine :). But trust me you will feel AMAZING!! Our GI systems are the worst they have ever been in history. Lack of digestive enzymes, low acidity thats masked as high acidity and made worse by ant acids.. Taking prevacid, nexxium, pepcid or any other acid reducer will totally rob you of not just B12 but other nutrients.. Antbiotics finish the job and bring your body to its knees. Oh not to forget those good old birth control pills that block B6 and B12 among other B vitamins.. Stop believing the fudged information thats so widely distributed. Its a front for Big Pharma, they don't want anyone to know that deficiencies or subclinical deficiencies exist.. In Russia B vitamin injections came with inserts that listed all the various diseases they CURED.. Yes the "C WORD" that the FDA HATES.. FDA has gotten a law passed that states that "Only approved DRUGS can control or cure a disease". So if someone has scurvy (Vit C deficiency) you can be put in jail for telling them that an orange can cure them of scurvy.. Because now you have declared the orange a DRUG and it hasn't been approved by the FDA for that purpose... YES MY FRIEND.. I am NOT JOKING.. Read Kevin Tredeau's book..

I've actually read Kevin Treadeau's book, ohh and by the way for your information he is being sued again, he hurt a lot of people's health because they fully listened to him and stop taking their medication.

Yeah it doesn't hurt anybody and at the same time but money into the pocket of those individuals who sell them (like you). Our body can store about 5 to 7 years worth of Vitamin B12. Those people who you tell to take are they experencing any neurological abnormalities that they are in need of Vitamin b12.

I've actually read Kevin Treadeau's book, ohh and by the way for your information he is being sued again, he hurt a lot of people's health because they fully listened to him and stop taking their medication.

Yeah it doesn't hurt anybody and at the same time but money into the pocket of those individuals who sell them (like you). Our body can store about 5 to 7 years worth of Vitamin B12. Those people who you tell to take are they experencing any neurological abnormalities that they are in need of Vitamin b12.

No my friend, actually the demyelination of the nerves thanks to our mouths pumped full of mercury, virus inoculations, and B12 deficiency that is causing epidemic proportions of neurodegenerative diseases in the YOUNG these days.. In Japan (God bless that country), methylcobalamin the neurologically active coenzyme of B12 is given to patients with demylelinating neurological diseases with high efficacy in 5mg daily doses (5,000mcg). Trudeau is being sued by the powers he is attempting to take down. You have no idea what the fate was of certain people who actually had cures for diseases (keep in mind a cure for one 50% of people may n ot be a cure in another 50%, the mind has alot to do with "spontaneous remissions" aka cures).. These peoples files and offices were confiscated and raided, they and their families were abducted and not heard of for years by friends... They were given new identities and isolated by the federal government G-d knows where.

I have a first cousin who is a very wealthy man on the west coast, he owned several media companies in the US and a nutritional supplement company in Russia. He recently discovered a team of scientists in Moscow that have a major discovery for the immune system which eliminates ALL DNA VIRUSES. He is scared to death to mention this in the US. He knows what will happen if he does. The product is amazing in its functionality and I know only a few things of what it does and I have no clue to exactly what it is because its so confidential. But the point is, its naturally occuring coenzyme that target the cells mitochondria directly and restoress DNA integrity on a CELLULAR LEVEL..
Even former Pharmaceutical executives and researchers left companies with utter disgust knowing they possessed great knowledge and regardless produced tailored drugs with the goal of suppressing diseases and making them chronic, with synthetic PATENTABLE chemical compounds that spawn additional side effects to create a whole new disease..

I spoke to this one top Homeopath from Moscow today, he told me certain German Homeopathic products are only available by prescription. I was like, But what MD would prescribe something he knows nothing about? He is like "exactly", new govnt law came in because hundreds of thousands of people began purchasing a certain homoepathic pain reliever that out did Tylenol without the liver damaging side effects. The FDA got word of that and placed "prescription required" on dozens of products. Even aloe acemannan gel for diabetic foot ulcers NEEDS A PRESCRIPTION!!! I tried ordering it for my grandmother 4 days ago, I asked the manager of the manufacturing company how this is possible, she said "new govnt rule". I was like "its freaking aloe gel concentrate". UZHAS!!!! Big Pharma want mass genocide. Ultimately their goal is to have a genetic race of humans on earth that are genetically tolerant to pharmaceutical drugs, while the rest they kill off and mame in surgery.. The American public will continue to become obese and get more cancer than ever before in history among other things.. Its all part of this rotten system of INsurance Companies, HMO's, Big Pharma, Doctors and the Food industry.. Sickening, but so obvious and true.. The poor are the victims because they don't know better. The wealthy people usually have their eyes wide open.. Allopathic medicine to date has NEVER placed a person in "spontaneous remission" of any "disease" (label). They only escort people into the grave faster..

Dude, you can trust me that with todays diets and antibiotic abuse, everyone's ileums are not in tip top shape to absorb enough B12.

Instead of making such a blunt statement, why don't you design a study, and test everyone's B12 levels, and see if they have enough or not.

Now you might say, who is to say that whatever standards the current USDA makes for Vit 12 is correct?? Sure, but your statement above assumes you know what "enough B12" means, so I'm sure you can design such a study.

I am not sure you'll be able to prove anything, and to be honest you probably will find that there is a very very small group of people who lack enough Vit B12, in the current US diet (as HandsomHunk noted above, probably only those who are strict strict vegetarians)

Secondly, extra never hurts, only optimizes body functions (its water soluble anyway), worse case you have expensive urine :).

Ahh now you are talking like an enterpreneur. Скажу честно, у тебя это хорошо получается!!!! :)

Instead of making such a blunt statement, why don't you design a study, and test everyone's B12 levels, and see if they have enough or not.

Now you might say, who is to say that whatever standards the current USDA makes for Vit 12 is correct?? Sure, but your statement above assumes you know what "enough B12" means, so I'm sure you can design such a study.

I am not sure you'll be able to prove anything, and to be honest you probably will find that there is a very very small group of people who lack enough Vit B12, in the current US diet (as HandsomHunk noted above, probably only those who are strict strict vegetarians)



Ahh now you are talking like an enterpreneur. Скажу честно, у тебя это хорошо получается!!!! :)

By the way, our current system of blood testing is becoming very outdated is beyond primitive for the diseases of today. It is too general in its output and does a better job in an emergency room rather than for clinical diagnostics for therapeutic use. Examples:

There was a study already conducted where serum B12 levels were normal to high while cerebro-spinal fluid levels were below normal. Therefore one can show neurological signs of deficiency while still maintaining normal blood serum levels.

Also, blood plasma and urine levels of minerals and ions do not necessarily reflect what is taking place within the cellular environment. Alterations of Ca/Mg/K within the red blood Cell has been more of an accurate diagnostic tool for spotting imbalances than the current primitive blood/urine tests.

Our current "general chemistry" blood test should be revamped and made more advanced. It is only useful for EMERGENCY medical treatment and diagnosis of acute disorders when its sometimes too late and a lot of damage has been done to body systems... Especially liver enzyme profile test. Probably the most mysterious organ right next to the Brain and equal in importance. The current test should be called a "liver damage assessment", not a liver detoxification test.. Many health issues stem from liver imbalances but are blamed on other body systems like the Central Nervous System and Immune system, because of the blindness of Medical System today....

Notice how scanning devices are being advanced day by day so as to SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE damage that has ALREADY occurred. Why not make specialty expensive blood and urine tests coverable by major insurances? Because there is "no clinical evidence of their impact and significance in treatment or diagnosis"?? BS!!! If you saw some heavy metal urine tests from various individuals both healthy and sick, side by side, you would SURELY see an importance in heavy metal detection and accumulation along with their link to diseases/symptoms.. Even my brother in law (a colorectal surgeon) who is a proud patriot of the medical system once said: "yea after the internists screw up the patient with drugs and steroids, they come to us to get a piece of their intestine removed"... This was after I called him a Butcher... And he happens to be a good one; Butcher that is.. :smoke:

By the way, our current system of blood testing is becoming very outdated is beyond primitive for the diseases of today. It is too general in its output and does a better job in an emergency room rather than for clinical diagnostics for therapeutic use.

Executive, I am not sure how your last post relates to the one made previously, but if our lab tests are outdated, do not detect what they are supposed to detect, then of course I understand how a study in detection of B12 can not be possible. However, because this study is impossible, you can not conclude that the statement that you made above "with todays diets and antibiotic abuse, everyone's ileums are not in tip top shape to absorb enough B12." can be justified.

This current statement also contradicts your next statement:

There was a study already conducted where serum B12 levels were normal to high while cerebro-spinal fluid levels were below normal. Therefore one can show neurological signs of deficiency while still maintaining normal blood serum levels.


I haven't read this study, so I don't know how the study was done, but in any event, according to you, this study is not valid to begin with, since our lab technology can not detect anything that would be useful anywhere but the ER.

Executive, I am not sure how your last post relates to the one made previously, but if our lab tests are outdated, do not detect what they are supposed to detect, then of course I understand how a study in detection of B12 can not be possible. However, because this study is impossible, you can not conclude that the statement that you made above "with todays diets and antibiotic abuse, everyone's ileums are not in tip top shape to absorb enough B12." can be justified.

This current statement also contradicts your next statement:



I haven't read this study, so I don't know how the study was done, but in any event, according to you, this study is not valid to begin with, since our lab technology can not detect anything that would be useful anywhere but the ER.

Regular general practitioners won't always send you to a Neurologist to conduct a spinal tap to detect CNS B12 levels when you come to him complaining about poor sleep, fatigue and depressive symptoms. If the physician sees your SERUM B12 is normal, Homocysteine is ok, and Homovallinic acid is within range, he especially wont consider the need for B12 supplementation.. My point was, taking extra water soluble B vitamins wont kill anyone anyway!! Why go thru the idiotic process of dangerous testing (spinal taps) or go by the ignorant and blindly deceptive blood tests as points of reference..????

As far as the ileums being in less than optimal state, why do you doubt this? Beneficial microflora is of vital importance in the in vivo synthesis of B vitamins not to mention absorption of vitamins (such as B12). From consistant antibiotic abuse of today, one can be assured the probiotics are not replenished in most people. Aside from that, the abuse of antacids renders the stomach helpless in utilizing B12 from the few foods its found in (lack of intrinsice factor that is dependant upon proper gastric acidity).

PS: Try taking sublingual cherry B12 lozenges (methylcobolamin) and see how it makes you feel within a couple of days, THEN and only THEN you can tell me that half the population is not subclinically deficient. Yes the USDA's RDA's are beyond outdated and thats the major culprit behind "how much is enough". But thats part of the corrupt chain, even if signs of deficiencies would begin to pop up regarding any nutrient, IT IS NOT IN THE MEDICAL SYSTEMS BEST INTEREST TO IDENTIFY SYMPTOMS OF A DISEASE AS A NUTRIENT DEFICIENCY!! THEY WANT THAT POSSIBILITY RULED OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!! Hence my story about the orange not being able to be called or used as a cure for scurvy (which today won't even be called scurvy, they rather give it 6 other modern disease labels such as: periodontitis, chapped lips, spontaneous bruising/hemorhaging, immune dysfunction, gingivitis etc..). This way they can prescribe several prescription drugs to mask the symptoms immediately without investigating the TRUE CAUSE.. Instant gratification and the Big Pharma go's CHA-CHING!!

IT IS NOT IN THE MEDICAL SYSTEMS BEST INTEREST TO IDENTIFY SYMPTOMS OF A DISEASE AS A NUTRIENT DEFICIENCY!! THEY WANT THAT POSSIBILITY RULED OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!

This may sound to you as a surprise, but while in training, we were always taught about scurvy as Vit C deficiency, and other vitamin deficiencies.

Hence my story about the orange not being able to be called or used as a cure for scurvy (which today won't even be called scurvy, they rather give it 6 other modern disease labels such as: periodontitis, chapped lips, spontaneous bruising/hemorhaging, immune dysfunction, gingivitis etc..). This way they can prescribe several prescription drugs to mask the symptoms immediately without investigating the TRUE CAUSE.. Instant gratification and the Big Pharma go's CHA-CHING!!

I think this is not the problem. I think many times because scurvy is not as common in the US, many practioners do not even look at it as a possibility. It's not that they'd rather not call it scurvy, it's that they are not realizing IT IS scurvy. You are blaming the medical system, and think that medical practitioners SHOULD BE Gods, but in reality they are just as human as anyone else is. If you are not seeing a certain disorder a lot in practice, many times you might overlook it and call it something else. Do I think this is right?? NO, but I think this problem stems back to other problems that our medical system has, and has nothing to do with practitioners not wanting to call a right diagnosis.

P.S. I think because of your experience with alternative medicine, your views of medicine are very biased. I think you need to be a little more open-minded, and allow at least a minute possibility that there are other views out there besides yours that might be right.

This may sound to you as a surprise, but while in training, we were always taught about scurvy as Vit C deficiency, and other vitamin deficiencies.



I think this is not the problem. I think many times because scurvy is not as common in the US, many practioners do not even look at it as a possibility. It's not that they'd rather not call it scurvy, it's that they are not realizing IT IS scurvy. You are blaming the medical system, and think that medical practitioners SHOULD BE Gods, but in reality they are just as human as anyone else is. If you are not seeing a certain disorder a lot in practice, many times you might overlook it and call it something else. Do I think this is right?? NO, but I think this problem stems back to other problems that our medical system has, and has nothing to do with practitioners not wanting to call a right diagnosis.

P.S. I think because of your experience with alternative medicine, your views of medicine are very biased. I think you need to be a little more open-minded, and allow at least a minute possibility that there are other views out there besides yours that might be right.

I am NOT BLAMING THE PHYSICIANS!!! THEY ARE SIMPLY VICTIMS OF THE SYSTEM.. They were brainwashed thru-out their education in med school, however not all fell prey to the twisted concepts of illness and treatment that were presented to them. Those with a true desire to heal and strengthen patients knew there must be something better that can be offered to ill individuals. Most, however, come out of med school ignorant and programmed henchmen armed with a prescription pad for death.. Its funny how the system weeds out the physically weak candidates all thru the hectic exhausting residency program. Seperating the strong from the weak. The system wants strong physians prescribing poisons that hopefully they themselves should never try.. Most doctors that are patriots tend to be cold hearted bastards that have no sense of sympathy for their patients, and these days with the business minded system they can only spend less than 10 minutes per patient.. I can assure you one thing, a doctor's eyes only open when and if he/she faces serious illness themselves and realizes that allopathic medicine offers no hope what so ever.. I know many "alternative/complimentary" physicians who have treated Doctor's who once were patriots who then developed a serious illness and realized they got nowhere with allopathic medicine.

Dude, in such a rotten system, I cannot be "open minded".. There is an obvious choice here. Good over Evil..:smoke:

PS: Its not that I am protecting my "industry". My supplement business is a side thing which I do more for the benefit of people. I do other things that are more significant and unrelated to this.. So I am not "biased" because I have a nice jucy interest. I just know my family is healthier thanks to dietary supplements and less toxic prescription drugs.. Tfu tfu tfu :)

Executive BTW

Who is it that you are quoting Kevin Tredeau an X-con a jail bird who has no formal education. This is the person who is giving American's advice about their diets and their health choices. Mr. Tredeau is very creative and deceptive, he knew that once his book was published their will be "whiste blowers" who would bring out the fact that he did time in jail so he cleverly brought this up himself, and turned it into a good thing. He states that since he himslef did time he knows all about corruption from first hand, and now he sees the light. What BS if you ask me!

Furthermore in his book he asks who can you trust about advice?

Those individuals who upon giving advice do not make a profit from it. That seems very reasonable and logical. The only problem is, is that he himself sells natural supplements, so according to him why should we trust him. The only way he (and you for that matter) can make money is by telling other (the sick) that they should not take presription medications. It isn't the fact that they went prescription (natural supplements) it is because it is hurting his(and your business).

Pharmacist on the other hand can recommend (sell) both natural supplements, and prescription product, because they are licensed. Thats why when people are looking for advice they should know whom to ask from. Someone like Kevin (or you for that matter) will only give the patient a one sided story (natural supplements) in his desperate attempt to make money.

Furthermore what really upset me even more about his book is that, he is not a MD, or a Pharm.D., or a PhD. to go and give people advice. He lacks education, and he has the nerve to go up and argue with those who spent a good portion of their lives learning. It all obvious why he does what he does

To quote him

"Its all about the money"

Executive BTW

Who is it that you are quoting Kevin Tredeau an X-con a jail bird who has no formal education. This is the person who is giving American's advice about their diets and their health choices. Mr. Tredeau is very creative and deceptive, he knew that once his book was published their will be "whiste blowers" who would bring out the fact that he did time in jail so he cleverly brought this up himself, and turned it into a good thing. He states that since he himslef did time he knows all about corruption from first hand, and now he sees the light. What BS if you ask me!

Furthermore in his book he asks who can you trust about advice?

Those individuals who upon giving advice do not make a profit from it. That seems very reasonable and logical. The only problem is, is that he himself sells natural supplements, so according to him why should we trust him. The only way he (and you for that matter) can make money is by telling other (the sick) that they should not take presription medications. It isn't the fact that they went prescription (natural supplements) it is because it is hurting his(and your business).

Pharmacist on the other hand can recommend (sell) both natural supplements, and prescription product, because they are licensed. Thats why when people are looking for advice they should know whom to ask from. Someone like Kevin (or you for that matter) will only give the patient a one sided story (natural supplements) in his desperate attempt to make money.

Furthermore what really upset me even more about his book is that, he is not a MD, or a Pharm.D., or a PhD. to go and give people advice. He lacks education, and he has the nerve to go up and argue with those who spent a good portion of their lives learning. It all obvious why he does what he does

To quote him

"Its all about the money"


Dude, most people in this world are SHEEP. Most chose to be blind and follow the ignorant path and live up to the status quo. I see your one of these types, no offense. Sometimes guys with a rough past experienced those lessons early in life in order to grow spiritually and then help humanity. Once again, life experience and hardships being the best possible school for enlightenment (hence Kevin's past history with the authorities).

Its the ones who were raised in isolation, and followed the system step by step thru out their narrow education and then on to their chosen "professions" that are the truly blind. They didn't really chose an independant path, in essence they were guided and pushed into a POSITION IN THE SYSTEM!! They eventually end up taking a PLACE in a FIXED SYSTEM. Whether your an MD, PharmD, its all Medical jargon and titles backed by big pharma.. Phd.'d on the other hand have more control over what they study and the research they conduct. Some follow the wrong path of LEAST RESISTANCE (more $$ less headaches like all you Pharmacists and most Docs) and some are obsessed with seeking betterment of society and relentlessy pursuing FAIR AND JUST RESEARCH in order to achieve their goals..

He himself said that he is well off in life, regardless of the huge lawsuits he is facing by the FTC, FDA and other agencies, but he also said that he is nowhere close or will ever be close to wealthy as the executives of the Pharmaceutical and Food Industries.. So what, he is making a living trying to open up the publics eyes and empower everyone to improve their health. Why not make a buck doing it at the same time? I see it as killing 2 birds with one stone and giving back to humanity. He is fighting a very strong evil and corrupt force. He also said "its not that money is the root of all evil, its the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil". When greed takes over to the point where a nation's people's health is on the line, thats where the line is crossed my friend..

Do you really think the chairmen of the big food companies like Kraft and General foods eat the stuff their company pumps out? I bet you anything they don't.. Do you every bothe reading ingredients lists on food labels and wonder why many foods have stuff in them that are hard to pronounce??

I can't wait for Michael Moore's film to come out regarding the "healthcare" system lol.. He's gonna rip the industry up VERY BAD :D.. You can't deny the truth buddy!! Today the nutraceutical industry is producing mind blowing products that were once impossible to isolate and were only found in biology books, besides plant adaptogens that balance the entire neuro-endocrine stress system thereby slowing aging, substances that increase the cardiac energy production and output and thousands of other therapies and products that STRENGTHEN AND SUPPORT THE BODY's SYSTEMS. Show me ONE US PHARMACEUTICAL THAT IS AN ENDOGENOUS COMPOUND (OR ANALOGUE) THAT STRENGTHENS OR SUPPORTS AN ORGAN OR BODY SYSTEM...And dude keep in mind I used to be a pharmacy tech from the age of 15-18 before i even realized they were poison. Oh and not to forget when I was 11 I had a cardiac arrhythmia that I took 2 drugs for that only dropped my blood pressure and I got more frequent episodes.. Puberty and physical activity/sports saved me and helped me outgrow it. When an episode returned later in life thank goodness to a endogenous vitamin like supplement CoEnzyme Q10, and magnesium heart has been peachy :). Beats that poison Digoxin/Lanoxin and moronic beta-blockers...They only rob a person of energy and create disbalance in the body.. :smoke:

PS: Pharmacists are licensed to know PHARMACEUTICALS thanks to their education. So unless they read up on stuff independantly, they don't know SQUAT ON WHATS UP IN THE NUTRACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. THEY WILL SEND YOU TO YOUR IGNORANT PHYSICIAN WHO PROBABLY DOESN'T KNOW SQUAT EITHER..

I am NOT BLAMING THE PHYSICIANS!!! THEY ARE SIMPLY VICTIMS OF THE SYSTEM.. They were brainwashed thru-out their education in med school, however not all fell prey to the twisted concepts of illness and treatment that were presented to them. Those with a true desire to heal and strengthen patients knew there must be something better that can be offered to ill individuals. Most, however, come out of med school ignorant and programmed henchmen armed with a prescription pad for death.. Its funny how the system weeds out the physically weak candidates all thru the hectic exhausting residency program. Seperating the strong from the weak. The system wants strong physians prescribing poisons that hopefully they themselves should never try.. Most doctors that are patriots tend to be cold hearted bastards that have no sense of sympathy for their patients, and these days with the business minded system they can only spend less than 10 minutes per patient.. I can assure you one thing, a doctor's eyes only open when and if he/she faces serious illness themselves and realizes that allopathic medicine offers no hope what so ever.. I know many "alternative/complimentary" physicians who have treated Doctor's who once were patriots who then developed a serious illness and realized they got nowhere with allopathic medicine.

Dude, in such a rotten system, I cannot be "open minded".. There is an obvious choice here. Good over Evil..:smoke:

PS: Its not that I am protecting my "industry". My supplement business is a side thing which I do more for the benefit of people. I do other things that are more significant and unrelated to this.. So I am not "biased" because I have a nice jucy interest. I just know my family is healthier thanks to dietary supplements and less toxic prescription drugs.. Tfu tfu tfu :)

I have no problem with anything you say in this post, except the bolded part. I am not saying that there is no place for alternative medicine, but there are conditions (mostly accute) that I am sure you are very aware of, in which case alternative medicine has no cure for (accute appendicitis for example, a strangulated hernia, or a fracture of a bone to name a few). In these cases you MUST turn to traditional alopathic medicine. So to call alopathic medicine "evil" would not just be biased but also ignorant on your part.

I don't particularly agree with most things in this post as a whole, but at least I am willing to step back, and allow for a possibility that maybe you may be right. I think though, you've said it best in the bolded part, that you "CAN NOT be open minded in this system." I'll let the reader decide who to trust more.

I have no problem with anything you say in this post, except the bolded part. I am not saying that there is no place for alternative medicine, but there are conditions (mostly accute) that I am sure you are very aware of, in which case alternative medicine has no cure for (accute appendicitis for example, a strangulated hernia, or a fracture of a bone to name a few). In these cases you MUST turn to traditional alopathic medicine. So to call alopathic medicine "evil" would not just be biased but also ignorant on your part.

I don't particularly agree with most things in this post as a whole, but at least I am willing to step back, and allow for a possibility that maybe you may be right. I think though, you've said it best in the bolded part, that you "CAN NOT be open minded in this system." I'll let the reader decide who to trust more.

I AGREE ON ONLY ONE THING. AMERICAN MEDICINE IS AMAZING IN EMERGENCY CARE AND SURGERY. They can literally bring a person back from the brink of death with the drugs and surgical procedures. BUT its what comes after and the treatment of illnesses thats the problem. They use EMERGENCY MEDICINE FOR THERAPEUTIC PURPOSES!!! WHy?? because they are helpless!!! Example: PREDNISONE/PREDNISOLONE, XANAX (and most other Benzodiazepines), antibiotics such as LEVAQUIN, CIPRO and that G-d forsaken FLAGYL (which I would ban). These drugs can and should be used in ACCUTE EMERGENCY situations. ANd this is only true because the system is to blind to uncover other less dangerous and equally effective potent treatments..

Dude, most people in this world are SHEEP. Most chose to be blind and follow the ignorant path and live up to the status quo.

Just because I am curious...do you consider yourself a SHEEP too?? Because from what you said before was that you can not be open minded in this system. That to me falls under your definition of "blind" and "following ignorant path."

Just because I am curious...do you consider yourself a SHEEP too?? Because from what you said before was that you can not be open minded in this system. That to me falls under your definition of "blind" and "following ignorant path."


Sheep are those who took an easy path of least resistance thru out life and were pushed along the systems road into the career world.

The non sheep are those that possibly might not have completed higher education or, in some cases those who have, but later worked at various mixed industries and carried different jobs. From each experience gathering knowledge. Then perhaps becoming entrepreneurs and when your a business person, your forced to see out of the box and understand how big business works. Sometimes hardships and crisises in life make one wiser and see beyond the cover of the "system"..

Sheep are those who took an easy path of least resistance thru out life and were pushed along the systems road into the career world.

The non sheep are those that possibly might not have completely higher education or sometimes those who have but later were worked at various mixed industries and carried different jobs. From each experience gathering knowledge. Then perhaps becoming entrepreneurs and when your a business person, your forced to see out of the box and understand how big business works. Sometimes hardships and crisises in life make one wiser and see beyond the cover of the "system"..

I think you may be an excelent enterpreneur, but unfortunately I do not see how you are seeing "outside of the box."

I AGREE ON ONLY ONE THING. AMERICAN MEDICINE IS AMAZING IN EMERGENCY CARE AND SURGERY. They can literally bring a person back from the brink of death with the drugs and surgical procedures. BUT its what comes after and the treatment of illnesses thats the problem. They use EMERGENCY MEDICINE FOR THERAPEUTIC PURPOSES!!! WHy?? because they are helpless!!! Example: PREDNISONE/PREDNISOLONE, XANAX (and most other Benzodiazepines), antibiotics such as LEVAQUIN, CIPRO and that G-d forsaken FLAGYL (which I would ban). These drugs can and should be used in ACCUTE EMERGENCY situations. ANd this is only true because the system is to blind to uncover other less dangerous and equally effective potent treatments..

You should know that, more and more about alternative medicines is being taught in schools. Their is an elective in my school (which I plan to take) about alternative medicines. My professors often say that taking natural supplements after recieving chemotherapy helps bring the body back into balance. The point is, is that the two should work together and not oppose each other, however with individuals like Kevin Treadeu who sees this as a threat because that means that no one will go to him, rather they will go to their knowledgable physcian and or pharmacist for advice.

Furthermore those some called "remedies" of yours often interact with some medications. For example grapefruit juice inhibits glycoprotein which, means that the person is getting more of the acutal drug. When dosing is done, it takes into account about a person glycoproteins.

Furthermore Kevin says that taking too much of supplements never heart anybody, and the example he uses is eating too much apples

I believe you yourself said earlier that too much of niacin is bad on the liver (Note I am taking your word on it and have not done any actualy research).

Also last example that comes to mind is Arginine which is sometimes used instead of Viagra (or other ED medications) to produce erections. How this works is because of Nitric Oxide which is a vasodilator. Well I think you know what a vasodilator does to a person who has high blood pressure, which means that its not for everyone, but at the same time its a natural amino acid. What I am saying is that true, supplements are useful and I myself use them from time to time, but at the same time they can be dangerous, they can interact with a person other medicaiton and thus cause problems. This is the importance of a pharmacist. This is why pharmacist and only pharmacist should be allowed to sell these supplements, because without proper educations about our bodies physiology people can get hurt. This is my problem with people of the street without any formal education (Kevin Tredeau) who go out and push natural supplements down people's throats.

How many hours of sleep do you get? Is it enough for you? What is a decent hour for you to be in bed by?
When I have school, I usually get 5-6 hrs of sleep, sometimes less, then walk around all day being extremly tired. On vacation days I get 9-10 hrs of sleep (try to make up for the loss sleep, but it doesnt work).

I tried going to sleep earlier on school nights, but can't fall asleep until the time I usually go to sleep. Does anyone know why? and how I can change it?

[QUOTE=Executive]I AGREE ON ONLY ONE THING. AMERICAN MEDICINE IS AMAZING IN EMERGENCY CARE AND SURGERY. They can literally bring a person back from the brink of death with the drugs and surgical procedures.

Wow their is progress going on!

When I have school, I usually get 5-6 hrs of sleep, sometimes less, then walk around all day being extremly tired. On vacation days I get 9-10 hrs of sleep (try to make up for the loss sleep, but it doesnt work).

I tried going to sleep earlier on school nights, but can't fall asleep until the time I usually go to sleep. Does anyone know why? and how I can change it?


Well if you were to ask executive he would immediately diagnose you as Vitamin B12 deficient.

I myself suffered from what you described. Often the reason why I can not go to sleep is because more often than not I find myself thinking, pondering, and driving myself nuts about shcool. Questions like how will I do on tomorrow's exam, and If I did all what I was supposed to do. If I actually catch myself going crazy like this I try to calm myself down, and that usually does the trick.

[QUOTE=Executive]I AGREE ON ONLY ONE THING. AMERICAN MEDICINE IS AMAZING IN EMERGENCY CARE AND SURGERY. They can literally bring a person back from the brink of death with the drugs and surgical procedures.

Wow their is progress going on!

Dude the REAL POINT IS WESTERN MEDICINE IN GENERAL IS CLUELESS!!! HOW YOU MAY ASK?? Well first mistake was having "specialists".. Thats like saying each organ is COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT FROM OTHER ORGANS.. THAT CANNOT BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH!! It amazes me how in the US you have Neurologists, Endocrinologists, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, and Psychotherapists all as seperate professions!! How in the world can someone be effectively treated who has a NeuroEndocrine disorder?? We have Neurologists treating patients with "autoimmune" diseases which should really be under the care of Immunologists and infectious disease specialists. Cardiology finally is realizing that Arrythmias are electrical in nature and not always structural so they spun off another profession (all about money) "Electrophysiologist".. Now we have Speech Therapists, Occupational Therapists, Physical Therapists.. Soon we will have Excretory Therapists helping people go to the bathroom perhaps lol.. Its really funny. Sometimes speech issues are Neurological in nature but no no, they wont send a person to a Neurologist with a speech impediment, they rather beat a dead horse and milk his insurance company until the poor kid begins to slur a few words correctly..

As far as chemotherapy, you must understand one thing. "Tumor" comes from the ancient greek for "swelling". This happens when the body's lymph system is under high toxic pressure for a long long time, whether chemical or microbial in nature. Allopathic medicine rather keep the root cause "unknown". But anyway, eventually an organ system takes the load upon itself and isolates immune irregularity in a specific organ which becomes a swelling that grows due to abnormal cell division. Without getting into specifics, the term "cancer" is a broad term given to several ALL VERY DIFFERENT DISEASES that share only one thing in common: The fact that they are cells dividing abnormally, toxic, and have the potential to spread.. Now if we think of chemotherapy, its like taking a sick person and throwing them in Hiroshima.. Why nuke a generally healthy body instead of immunomodulating it? Some and MOST people don't survive some chemo treatments. All it does it weaken them and kill them before the disease does.. Sure they will need supplements after the blasts of chemo, thats if they will even have the strength and metabolic activity to handle them properly. If the liver is shot from chemo, supplements are useless unless they are targeted at the liver first in a step by step regenerative process.. I don't understand why western medicine has the NUKE IT approach to health.. Its too strong and synthetic for our frail bodies that are not used to man-made chemical compounds.. They are to the body, foreign toxic substances that need to be eliminated FAST!! Extra burden on the poor liver thats already overloaded.. Ehhhh, bro. The system sucks, but maybe its too late..

Well if you were to ask executive he would immediately diagnose you as Vitamin B12 deficient.

I myself suffered from what you described. Often the reason why I can not go to sleep is because more often than not I find myself thinking, pondering, and driving myself nuts about shcool. Questions like how will I do on tomorrow's exam, and If I did all what I was supposed to do. If I actually catch myself going crazy like this I try to calm myself down, and that usually does the trick.

Racing thoughts.. You think thats normal?? If you eventually stop the thoughts your ok. But some people regardless continue to have shallow sleep with burdens floating in their heads non stop. They wake up exhausted and miserable.. Now thats a problem..

PS: Did you read my first response to you today? Its alot to read :).

When I have school, I usually get 5-6 hrs of sleep, sometimes less, then walk around all day being extremly tired. On vacation days I get 9-10 hrs of sleep (try to make up for the loss sleep, but it doesnt work).

I tried going to sleep earlier on school nights, but can't fall asleep until the time I usually go to sleep. Does anyone know why? and how I can change it?

Sleep/wake cycles are off and you seem to need too much sleep to feel refreshed. Yes I would recommend biologically active B12 lozenges for a couple of weeks at the very least (as far as supplements). Methyl B12 is a methyl donor like Folate and B6, methylation is required for the pineal gland's synthesis of melatonin. That is why people notice B12 promotes deeper more refreshing sleep, and requiring less of it than usual.. I don't recommend taking melatonin as a supplement because unlike prior research that showed it as a sleep promoter only, new research shows it is a more powerful immune modulating hormone.. Always better to stick to the fundamentals at times.. ;)

By the way, don't forget that he himself (Kevin T.) said to STAY AWAY FROM VITAMINS AND MINERALS!!! I AGREE!!!! DO YOU KNOW WHY?? 99.99% of the vitamins and minerals on the shelves are USP grade. Do you know what that means? United States Pharmacopeia standard. Basically they are all chemical isolates that are the cheapest to manufacture, sometimes made from corn syrup, animal parts or limestone!!! Also, they are not the actually organic forms that our body recognizes. Keep in mind that all "fortified" and "vitamin enriched" foods on the shelves are all full of crap. They spend 2 cents a box spraying the cereals, juices and other products with microamounts of these USP chemicals and market them very very well. Whole food vitamins and minerals are the way to go. Organically cultivated extracts, plant cell fermented and grown. They are bound in a complex food matrix as nutrients that are found in food. They are bound to phospholipids, bioflavanoids, essential fatty acids, and coenzymes... USP grades use highly inorganic forms of minerals and vitamins that the body rejects and actually they pull out the other components out of your body!!! The calcium and iron they are dumping in foods are there to kill people :). Don't believe me if you dont want to. Calcium carbonate is the WORST form of calcium. You might as well eat your sidewalk. It can promote the accumlation of kidney stones, harden arteries, deposit itself in tumors, increase blood clotting and more. Iron is a HIGHLY POTENT OXIDANT. IRON OXIDIZES INTO RUST and destroys cells with its free radical production. Its a great energy source for microbes and viruses not to mention cancerous cells, and Total cereal has enough inorganic iron in it to equate to eating 6 whole beef livers!!!