How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?
God forsake, I would immediately have a heart attack...

i would beat the Sh**t out of him at first with my belt, and than tell him it's not ok to be gay we need to reproduce thats why we are here on this world. not to show your true colors but to be multipled, grow our generation of judaism alive..

i would beat the Sh**t out of him at first with my belt, and than tell him it's not ok to be gay we need to reproduce thats why we are here on this world. not to show your true colors but to be multipled, grow our generation of judaism alive..
would that help?
btw: the question is not only about guys, girls as well

definitely, if not i will hit him harder, tell him u want to live under my roof be straight or get out.

definately prove him the oposite

found this article, "Homosexuality is 'normal', Gays have bigger dicks - [Oddly Enough]"

Homosexuality is in the genes, study claims
By Julia Stuart
Published: 03 July 2005
Sexuality is determined well before birth and is not the result of social influences, scientists will claim this week. The authors of a new book published on Thursday say that sexual orientation is decided by a mixture of genetic factors and hormonal activity in the womb - and that homosexuality cannot be "cured".

Born Gay by Dr Glenn Wilson of the Institute of Psychiatry and Dr Qazi Rahman of the University of East London has been welcomed by gay rights activists, who say it proves there is nothing "unnatural" about homosexuality. But the book has also been criticised for suggesting that men who see themselves as bisexual should be classed as gay.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article296445.ece

in my opinion, no they are not born that way they are raised that way.

definitely, if not i will hit him harder, tell him u want to live under my roof be straight or get out.

I hope you're only being sarcastic, because this kind of behavior will not get you anywhere. Your kid will resent you and will no longger live under your roof.
People tend to respond to logic, explanations, kindness, caring, support, especially from the closest people in the world/the supportive net, a.k.a. the Family.

i don't seem to care, just an opinion...
what u would send him to the corner? people respond to incentive's he will respond and understand true meaning of relationship after my belt slaps his behind.

o man....alik, u crack me up. i was sitting here and reading and i was telling my bro wat u said. i was on the flooor......thanks for a good laugh. we needed that. :)

Well, I really would not want my kids to be gays/lesbians, but one thing for sure I will not reject my child no matter what. I believe that family is the only place in the world that must, no matter what offer unconditional love and support. Such support makes an individual feel like he/she can do anything in the world and allows them to grow into confident beings without fear to explore the world.



Anyway, we don't choose our family members, just like we don’t choose to be born. And just like taking our own life is a sin, considering that the soul is not ours to let it go. Neither is the right to disown one's family member. What am I going to do in the above listed question? Well, nothing drastic, I will list positive and negative outcomes and it will be up to the child to decide what he/she wants to do. Because the fact is, you scream or not he/she will do what he/she wants.

i don't seem to care, just an opinion...
what u would send him to the corner? people respond to incentive's he will respond and understand true meaning of relationship after my belt slaps his behind.

This is what I think will happen in this case....If Alik is lucky, his kid will not make a big deal out of "belt slapping" he gets at home, and this is not going to be a publisized even in the New York Times and all the news channels. He will not report Alik to the police, his dad will not be charged with homicide, and won't be given a large jail sentence. In this case, the kid will wait until he is 18, and then move out, and probably never talk to Alik again. He will still be gay!!!! (just my opinon)

hehehe, you see Alik, he will still be gay.

goodness gracious, how can u support a child in his gayness?

just become aware of it in the early stages of it and prevent it from the start, unless ur planning to throw him a wedding where u have two brides and then sit thru sheva brachot in embarrassment.

Torah forbids gayness. doesnt that obviously mean that its in a person's control??
EVERYTHING a person feels is in their control. if they want to be happy, they can be happy. if they want to be sad, they can do that too. BUT its all in their control. they can change their state in seconds if they wanted to. its not about wats going on their life that takes control of their feelings. its about knowing how to handle everything and being in charge of ur feelings.

actually what interests me is what is the cause? Is it environmental or biological/genetic?

Although i know that many people, "try things" they call it being "open minded." I personally disagree with this behavior being called, "open minded". I think they should come up with some different word/phrase to expain it.

goodness gracious, how can u support a child in his gayness?

just become aware of it in the early stages of it and prevent it from the start, unless ur planning to throw him a wedding where u have two brides and then sit thru sheva brachot in embarrassment.

Torah forbids gayness. doesnt that obviously mean that its in a person's control??
EVERYTHING a person feels is in their control. if they want to be happy, they can be happy. if they want to be sad, they can do that too. BUT its all in their control. they can change their state in seconds if they wanted to. its not about wats going on their life that takes control of their feelings. its about knowing how to handle everything and being in charge of ur feelings.

support in gayness does not mean go along with them. You just state what you think about the subject and don't go over board with getting your point across. I personally do not support this whole gay/lesbian idea/concept/life style. However considering that I do know more than few people who are gay, i've seen what they are going through.

You see I don't want to argue with you on this because you seem like an individual who closely observes jewish religion. Because when I look at this issue(gays/lesbians) I do not look at it from the point of any religion. I'm just looking at it from the point of nature, people in general, their feelings, why such things might happen, and so on... So, it does not seem like we might come to anything that would make sense.

support in gayness does not mean go along with them. You just state what you think about the subject and don't go over board with getting your point across. I personally do not support this whole gay/lesbian idea/concept/life style. However considering that I do know more than few people who are gay, i've seen what they are going through.

You see I don't want to argue with you on this because you seem like an individual who closely observes jewish religion. Because when I look at this issue(gays/lesbians) I do not look at it from the point of any religion. I'm just looking at it from the point of nature, people in general, their feelings, why such things might happen, and so on... So, it does not seem like we might come to anything that would make sense.

i think that looking at it from a jewish point of view makes it easier to understand and accept. but that does not mean it doesnt exist outside of religion. there are many secular lectures about feelings and u r the one solely responsible for them since u can change them at any given second. try downloading stuff by anthony robbins and ull see wat im talking about.

You guys dont wanna know what I would do to that kid of mine!

You guys dont wanna know what I would do to that kid of mine!

i can imagine.

i can imagine.
I'm sure you can girly girl! :innoc04:

found this article, "Homosexuality is 'normal', Gays have bigger dicks - [Oddly Enough]"

Homosexuality is in the genes, study claims
By Julia Stuart
Published: 03 July 2005
Sexuality is determined well before birth and is not the result of social influences, scientists will claim this week. The authors of a new book published on Thursday say that sexual orientation is decided by a mixture of genetic factors and hormonal activity in the womb - and that homosexuality cannot be "cured".

Born Gay by Dr Glenn Wilson of the Institute of Psychiatry and Dr Qazi Rahman of the University of East London has been welcomed by gay rights activists, who say it proves there is nothing "unnatural" about homosexuality. But the book has also been criticised for suggesting that men who see themselves as bisexual should be classed as gay.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article296445.ece

in my opinion, no they are not born that way they are raised that way.

What a pile of rubbish is this. This study is without any doubt biased and “homosexuality cannot be cured” line is obviously stated for political handle for the gay rights movement.

Think about this, if a certain disease is incurable if a certain action is beyond eyzher hara and is something that is g-d given and is not bound for change no matter how hard you try, would it be explicitly forbidden by the Torah? Certain people feel that their desire to sin is incurable. One that likes to steal, says “my hands are itching, I can’t help it…I must steal.” Is he justified when he claims that this “itching” is a disease? G-d knows that some ppl are prone to do certain actions that are immoral. Many ppl react differently to the internal and external pressures. All is contingent to the level of spirituality. In accordance with that level of spirituality, the etzher hara influences them with different degrees. Note that more often the intellectual ppl with higher spirituality levels tend to be gay. :love14: All it means is that they don’t have the strength to overcome their etzher hara. :mad34:

actually what interests me is what is the cause? Is it environmental or biological/genetic?

Although i know that many people, "try things" they call it being "open minded." I personally disagree with this behavior being called, "open minded". I think they should come up with some different word/phrase to expain it.
I think "open minded" is referred to the way we think about certain things. It is not about behavior. For example trying drugs, just because you have to try everything once in life is not open minded.

What a pile of rubbish is this. What this study is biased and “homosexuality cannot be cured” line is obviously stated for political handle for the gay rights movement.

Think about this, if a certain disease is incurable if a certain action is beyond eyzher hara and is something that is g-d given and is not bound for change no matter how hard you try, would it be explicitly forbidden by the Torah? Certain people feel that their desire to sin is incurable. One that likes to steal, says “my hands are itching, I can’t help it…I must steal.” Is he justified when he claims that this “itching” is a disease? G-d knows that some ppl are prone to do certain actions that are immoral. Many ppl react differently to the internal and external pressures. All is contingent to the level of spirituality. In accordance with that level of spirituality, the etzher hara influences them with different degrees. Note that more often the intellectual ppl with higher spirituality levels tend to be gay. :love14: All it means is that they don’t have the strength to overcome their etzher hara. :mad34:
very interestingly put!
:innoc04:

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?
No comment.. All I can say is G-d forbid....

this reminds me of the time i was listening to the radio and they were making a prank call to a woman (she sounded African American) telling her that they found out that her son is a heterosexual. she was driving and had to pull over. she kept saying "o my L-rd" and talking about how her husband would beat the life out of the son. i was cracking up. then in the end, they revealed to her the meaning of heterosexual :) a ana dumala shto on galuboy. lol

I think "open minded" is referred to the way we think about certain things. It is not about behavior. For example trying drugs, just because you have to try everything once in life is not open minded.

you're right, but don't forget that your/our behavior comes from how we thing about certain things.
*~Behavior is a product of thought~* or lack of it.

No comment.. All I can say is G-d forbid.... Just because you say that your problem will not be solved. You still have to deal with it.

What a pile of rubbish is this. This study is without any doubt biased and “homosexuality cannot be cured” line is obviously stated for political handle for the gay rights movement.

Think about this, if a certain disease is incurable if a certain action is beyond eyzher hara and is something that is g-d given and is not bound for change no matter how hard you try, would it be explicitly forbidden by the Torah? Certain people feel that their desire to sin is incurable. One that likes to steal, says “my hands are itching, I can’t help it…I must steal.” Is he justified when he claims that this “itching” is a disease? G-d knows that some ppl are prone to do certain actions that are immoral. Many ppl react differently to the internal and external pressures. All is contingent to the level of spirituality. In accordance with that level of spirituality, the etzher hara influences them with different degrees. Note that more often the intellectual ppl with higher spirituality levels tend to be gay. :love14: All it means is that they don’t have the strength to overcome their etzher hara. :mad34:

kind of makes sense. But what is eyzher hara?

kind of makes sense. But what is eyzher hara?

it is what makes us make bad choices...our desire to do wrong...think of it as an evil little devil sitting on your left shoulder (evil inclination)

I heard that one on KTU. I couldn't stop laughing. But G-d forbid if that happens.

I heard that some of our bucharian guys are gay. I actually know one through an acquitance of mine. The gay guy used to tell my acquitance that he can't live without it. He even moved to the city. Lived there for couple of years and then suddenly i heard that he is getting married to a bucharian girl. I don't think the girl knew, cause when someone told her she didn't want to believe it and said she accepts it.

I heard that one on KTU. I couldn't stop laughing. But G-d forbid if that happens.
brobably this happend while you were driving... :morning:

I heard that one on KTU. I couldn't stop laughing. But G-d forbid if that happens.

I heard that some of our bucharian guys are gay. I actually know one through an acquitance of mine. The gay guy used to tell my acquitance that he can't live without it. He even moved to the city. Lived there for couple of years and then suddenly i heard that he is getting married to a bucharian girl. I don't think the girl knew, cause when someone told her she didn't want to believe it and said she accepts it.

heheh yea and then we hear stories like, "i had to stop the wedding because i caught him with his uncle..." lol

What turns you to such thoughts?

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?

What turns you to such thoughts?
Well if it is addressed to me, someone asked me that previously and I was puzzled. I never heard about bukharian jews being gay or transsexual etc.
Thus, I wanted to know what boojle readers think about this controversial issue.

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?
I have a better question. What will you do if you realize that you are gay?

I have another question. Why Torah prohibits men to perform homosexual activities but does not apply same prohibition to girls?

found this article, "Homosexuality is 'normal', Gays have bigger dicks - [Oddly Enough]"

Homosexuality is in the genes, study claims
By Julia Stuart
Published: 03 July 2005
Sexuality is determined well before birth and is not the result of social influences, scientists will claim this week. The authors of a new book published on Thursday say that sexual orientation is decided by a mixture of genetic factors and hormonal activity in the womb - and that homosexuality cannot be "cured".

Born Gay by Dr Glenn Wilson of the Institute of Psychiatry and Dr Qazi Rahman of the University of East London has been welcomed by gay rights activists, who say it proves there is nothing "unnatural" about homosexuality. But the book has also been criticised for suggesting that men who see themselves as bisexual should be classed as gay.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article296445.ece

in my opinion, no they are not born that way they are raised that way.
Judging by the title of the article you posted ,Alik are you going to run after your sons with a ruler? ;)time? :fight58:

I believe that family is the only place in the world that must, no matter what offer unconditional love and support. Such support makes an individual feel like he/she can do anything in the world and allows them to grow into confident beings without fear to explore the world.



i know another unconditional love, strip club!!! and it is not is the only place in the world, and it can make man feel like he can do anything in the world....
:happy05: :happy05: :happy05:

I have another question. Why Torah prohibits men to perform homosexual activities but does not apply same prohibition to girls?

i learned that its because when men do it, they destroy seed.

I have another question. Why Torah prohibits men to perform homosexual activities but does not apply same prohibition to girls?

doesn't it have to do with wasting their (can I say this word here?) seeds?

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?

I was thinking about this question myself for a long time. In fact when I ask bukharian people around me this same question, most people respond similarly to the responds here.

This, I think is a very controvertial issue, which means that there are probably no right or wrong answers. If I was faced with a situation like this, I'd try to explain to my child that the purpose of life is to multiply, I'd also mention that G-d has created a man and a woman for this specific purpose, but would probably never go pressure him in either direction. I think force will not work in this case (and in fact will probably make things worst, since it will probably alientate the child away from his/her parent, and he/she will just hide the affairs, and not tell anyone).

Hopefully my child will understand. If not, then I don't think anyone can persuade him to do otherwise.

One other thing. Being openminded to me does not mean doing everything that other cultures do. To me being open minded means understanding why certain people do what they do, but not necessarily agreeing with it.

Homosexuals are born, not made. There is no real point in discussing such a question, because ultimately the childs/individuals sexual preferance cannot be changed.

Whenever I hear someone say "oh I want to have 2 boys and 1 girl, or a boy or girl etc." I say in response "Pray that you have a healthy and normal child above all else". In such a case, instead of asking each other what we would do as parents with a gay child, the question should be rephrased "how would we react". Otherwise, it is wiser not to even dwell on such a topic, but rather hope and pray none of us have to be in such a position to begin with...

Homosexuals are NOT born, they are adapt to society that way PERIOD!!!

Homosexuals are NOT born, they are adapt to society that way PERIOD!!!

yes i completely agree with u. my cousin was telling me about why kids are born gay.....she kept saying how they cant help it because its in them already. but i know they can. they just choose not to change and want to continue in their gay ways.

Homosexuals are NOT born, they are adapt to society that way PERIOD!!!

Yes MR. THEY ARE BORN!! It has been proven that Homosexuals not only possess the specific gene, but some even possess female structured brains!! Science has specified the differences between the male and female brain structures, and the finding they noticed was astonoshing. They are the "freaks of nature", and the bible simply tells us to kill-off the "bad", non-reproductive creatures.. They are in themselves "waistes of seed"..

yes i completely agree with u. my cousin was telling me about why kids are born gay.....she kept saying how they cant help it because its in them already. but i know they can. they just choose not to change and want to continue in their gay ways.

Missy, most of them naturally develope this craving during puberty. Most gay men are actualy flawless, kind and very successfull people. DONOT criticize them!! I would rather say "toba-toba, rash bahudash"!!

Missy, most of them naturally develope this craving during puberty. Most gay men are actualy flawless, kind and very successfull people. DONOT criticize them!! I would rather say "toba-toba, rash bahudash"!!

its all in their control. they can change. there is nothing preventing them from changing except for themselves. they stand in their own way.

its all in their control. they can change. there is nothing preventing them from changing except for themselves. they stand in their own way.

Have you ever heard of Hermaphrodites? People born with born male and female organs? Do you know how they feel? They are miserabley confused.. sometimes heaven makes mistakes, souls get placed in wrong bodies.. Open your mind hun, it is not up to them... We're talking Gay men not lesbian women who are curious..

Missy, DONOT criticize them!!
dude, it doesnt seem liek she is cricizing...
Missy, I would rather say "toba-toba, rash bahudash"!!
I think you meant to say rayash not rash. Ra' means a path or in this case their way... ;)

Have you ever heard of Hermaphrodites? People born with born male and female organs? Do you know how they feel? They are miserabley confused.. sometimes heaven makes mistakes, souls get placed in wrong bodies.. Open your mind hun, it is not up to them... We're talking Gay men not lesbian women who are curious..

Hashem is perfect, He never makes mistakes. Don't you dare ever say that souls get places in wrong bodies. There is no such thing as mistakes. Everything is intentional.

Hashem is perfect, He never makes mistakes. Don't you dare ever say that souls get places in wrong bodies. There is no such thing as mistakes. Everything is intentional.

Wasn't it said that god created humans to resemble him. Or it was not written in the Torah?

Hashem is perfect, He never makes mistakes. Don't you dare ever say that souls get places in wrong bodies. There is no such thing as mistakes. Everything is intentional.


Why?.......

Wasn't it said that god created humans to resemble him. Or it was not written in the Torah?

We are created B'tzelem Elokim - in the image of Hashem.

Why?.......

Why are people created a certain way or given certain problems? There are many reasons. I only know a few.
A person's soul is brought back into this world in a different body to atone for sins that they did in a past life. They have the opportunity to correct their mistakes. Whether they take that opportunity or not is their choice, but they are held accountable for that choice.
People are brought into this world for the purpose of enjoying it. The true enjoyment is a spiritual one. It is a connection with Hashem. Through those challenges, you can come closer to Hashem and make your relationship stronger. That is true enjoyment. So if you have hard times, you are not supposed to blame Hashem and step away from Him. That will not get you anywhere. Call out to Him. He is waiting for you to say, "Aba, help me get through this."

dude, it doesnt seem liek she is cricizing...

I think you meant to say rayash not rash. Ra' means a path or in this case their way... ;)

Whats with this ultra proper Anglo-Bukharian spelling?? Is there a book "Bukharian in English for Dummies" that I am not aware of??

Hashem is perfect, He never makes mistakes. Don't you dare ever say that souls get places in wrong bodies. There is no such thing as mistakes. Everything is intentional.

Ok, in that case Hashem also granted us FREE WILL. So free will allows people to get sex change operations as well as chose the sexual partner they NATURALLY crave... You should really stop thinking solely like a brain-washed Jew and more like an open minded Philosopher..No offense please.

Ok, in that case Hashem also granted us FREE WILL. So free will allows people to get sex change operations as well as chose the sexual partner they NATURALLY crave... You should really stop thinking solely like a brain-washed Jew and more like an open minded Philosopher..No offense please.

Hashem said in His Torah that you are NOT allowed to be gay. There is a choice to ignore ur "natural craving" and listen to Him or the choice to ignore Hashem and go for ur "natural craving." He made it quite clear what He wants of us. We are responsible for the actions we take after that.
Never ever call me "like a brain-washed Jew." I love the way I think and I love G-d and I love doing whatever it is that He asks me to do. Just because I listen to Him and defend the Torah's words does not automatically mean I am thinking like a brain-washed Jew.
It seems that since you have the nerve to call me that, you haven't read the dvar Torah I wrote about setting your own goals and not putting other people down by calling them brain-washed (fanatics). You do not realize the results of such words. Check it out when you have time. I think it was called Setting Your Goal.

Whats with this ultra proper Anglo-Bukharian spelling???
You got a problem with my correction??? live with it!

Is there a book "Bukharian in English for Dummies" that I am not aware of??
lol, actualy there is! The book is being published, i'll let you about it hits the private book stores ;)

lol, actualy there is! The book is being published, i'll let you about it hits the private book stores ;)

hmmmmm, who is writing it?

Hashem said in His Torah that you are NOT allowed to be gay. There is a choice to ignore ur "natural craving" and listen to Him or the choice to ignore Hashem and go for ur "natural craving." He made it quite clear what He wants of us. We are responsible for the actions we take after that.
Never ever call me "like a brain-washed Jew." I love the way I think and I love G-d and I love doing whatever it is that He asks me to do. Just because I listen to Him and defend the Torah's words does not automatically mean I am thinking like a brain-washed Jew.
It seems that since you have the nerve to call me that, you haven't read the dvar Torah I wrote about setting your own goals and not putting other people down by calling them brain-washed (fanatics). You do not realize the results of such words. Check it out when you have time. I think it was called Setting Your Goal.

Pardon me for taking it to such extremes, but where is the prove that God asked that of people? Are you sure that it was exactly what he wanted? Considering that people interpret Torah, how can you be sure that it is interpreted the way God intended for it to be understood? After all people are only people and have been known for corruption and dishonesty.

Pardon me for taking it to such extremes, but where is the prove that God asked that of people? Are you sure that it was exactly what he wanted? Considering that people interpret Torah, how can you be sure that it is interpreted the way God intended for it to be understood? After all people are only people and have been known for corruption and dishonesty.

Yes, it is in the Torah. I'll find it for you. I think it was a few parshas ago. I just didn't get into it. I'll get back to you on this one.

And even so, our great sages have many sources for interpreting the Torah the way they did. Some had ruach hakodesh, like Rashi did. He was a great tzadik and chacham, not corrupt or dishonest.

Yes, it is in the Torah. I'll find it for you. I think it was a few parshas ago. I just didn't get into it. I'll get back to you on this one.

And even so, our great sages have many sources for interpreting the Torah the way they did. Some had ruach hakodesh, like Rashi did. He was a great tzadik and chacham, not corrupt or dishonest.


Lets refer to the HUMASH please and not the Oral Torah. In the Humash it states to stone them with stones as in many other cases. So if heaven is so PERFECT, why would g-d say to destroy the products that he himself created? Why don't all men crave that same craving? Its not a common desire to have, it is congenital. So then lets consider it as a mental illness, in this case maybe it would be proper to kill all mentally ill people as well?

Stoning and eliminating reminds me of Hitler attempting to purify a single race. Eliminate the mutations or accidents of nature so they dont repeat. All for the sake of PROCREATION my dear....Make babies, make babies and more babies!! Multiply!!

lets not be contradictory hippocrites please..

A bit off topic, regarding waisting seed, since it is such a huge sin, then I guess Gehinom will be pretty packed with friends and family cause 97% of men spill seed on a daily basis..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: please donot take the above statements offensively. I'm simply not in a very spiritual/religious mood today. :)

Lets refer to the HUMASH please and not the Oral Torah. In the Humash it states to stone them with stones as in many other cases. So if heaven is so PERFECT, why would g-d say to destroy the products that he himself created? Why don't all men crave that same craving? Its not a common desire to have, it is congenital. So then lets consider it as a mental illness, in this case maybe it would be proper to kill all mentally ill people as well?

Stoning and eliminating reminds me of Hitler attempting to purify a single race. Eliminate the mutations or accidents of nature so they dont repeat. All for the sake of PROCREATION my dear....Make babies, make babies and more babies!! Multiply!!

lets not be contradictory hippocrites please..

A bit off topic, regarding waisting seed, since it is such a huge sin, then I guess Gehinom will be pretty packed with friends and family cause 97% of men spill seed on a daily basis..

first of all, we cannot understand Hashem's meaning of perfect. we are limited so we only understand the human meaning of perfect.
G-d created many things in this world. like an example i gave before, if G-d created stealing, does that mean its okay to do it. NO! these things are here for our test. if there was all good and no one was able to sin, then wats the point of the world? the opportunity to sin presents itself so that we can overcome our yetzer hara.
being gay is a choice people have. if they make the wrong choice, then they deserve to be killed as Hashem says. nowadays, we dont stone people. Hashem punishes these ppl himself. Does it make sense to punish ppl who cant help it? No. So that means that they can help it. They can change. It's all in their control.

Do u see anywhere in the Torah that it says to stone mentally ill people? there is a difference between mentally ill and gay.

about wasting seed, yes it is a huge sin. if only people knew about it and cared about the halacha.

first of all, we cannot understand Hashem's meaning of perfect. we are limited so we only understand the human meaning of perfect.
G-d created many things in this world. like an example i gave before, if G-d created stealing, does that mean its okay to do it. NO! these things are here for our test. if there was all good and no one was able to sin, then wats the point of the world? the opportunity to sin presents itself so that we can overcome our yetzer hara.
being gay is a choice people have. if they make the wrong choice, then they deserve to be killed as Hashem says. nowadays, we dont stone people. Hashem punishes these ppl himself. Does it make sense to punish ppl who cant help it? No. So that means that they can help it. They can change. It's all in their control.

Do u see anywhere in the Torah that it says to stone mentally ill people? there is a difference between mentally ill and gay.

about wasting seed, yes it is a huge sin. if only people knew about it and cared about the halacha.

Very selfish oppinion. How would you like if someone told you you should marry a female? That is equivalent to the gay scenario. It is not a choice, or a luxury or a sexual fetish. It is everything these people are about from the day they were born. Most say as young kids they felt attracted to men.

My point is, they have no choice, they were freaks of nature and G-d commanded to destroy them to purify humanity so that it can multiply.. They are essentially DNA mutations... I'm not saying their behaviour should be advocated, but they would be more destructive if they were suppresed. They would still find ways of fulfilling their needs and most would remain un-married to women for that very purpose. So either we "stone them" to death, or let them screw each other.

I am however against them adopting children and making parades. That is pure exploitation..

first of all, we cannot understand Hashem's meaning of perfect. we are limited so we only understand the human meaning of perfect.
G-d created many things in this world. like an example i gave before, if G-d created stealing, does that mean its okay to do it. NO! these things are here for our test. if there was all good and no one was able to sin, then wats the point of the world? the opportunity to sin presents itself so that we can overcome our yetzer hara.
being gay is a choice people have. if they make the wrong choice, then they deserve to be killed as Hashem says. nowadays, we dont stone people. Hashem punishes these ppl himself. Does it make sense to punish ppl who cant help it? No. So that means that they can help it. They can change. It's all in their control.

Do u see anywhere in the Torah that it says to stone mentally ill people? there is a difference between mentally ill and gay.

about wasting seed, yes it is a huge sin. if only people knew about it and cared about the halacha.
How can you speak of something when you don’t have the slightest understanding of what those people feeling or going through? It is very easy to judge someone when you don't know anything about them. In order to understand a person you must put yourself in their place. But then again, may be you don’t have the desire to understand, but may be you simply aim to execute the rules that you have been told were created by God.



Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God, but I am skeptical of many things that one person passes to the next. I don't know may be if I was a male I would have been more accepting of these religious law. But seeing how women supposed to be treated in comparison to men, does not allow me to believe that God would do something like that. Or may be I simply have different concept of God, then you do. :/

How can you speak of something when you don’t have the slightest understanding of what those people feeling or going through? It is very easy to judge someone when you don't know anything about them. In order to understand a person you must put yourself in their place. But then again, may be you don’t have the desire to understand, but may be you simply aim to execute the rules that you have been told were created by God.



Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God, but I am skeptical of many things that one person passes to the next. I don't know may be if I was a male I would have been more accepting of these religious law. But seeing how women supposed to be treated in comparison to men, does not allow me to believe that God would do something like that. Or may be I simply have different concept of God, then you do. :/

She thinks being Gay is a choice, thats the major problem. You cannot compare homosexuality with infidelity or adultery for example. Homosexuality is a programmed genetic defect and these people are cursed with having an inborn desire for the same sex partner. They donot choose to be different, in many cases they were closet cases, married women against there will masking their true sexual identity. They ultimately get divorced because their wives realize how dysfunctional they are sexually towards them, or other reasons. Hence the term "coming out of the closet".

She thinks being Gay is a choice, thats the major problem. You cannot compare homosexuality with infidelity or adultery for example. Homosexuality is a programmed genetic defect and these people are cursed with having an inborn desire for the same sex partner. They donot choose to be different, in many cases they were closet cases, married women against there will masking their true sexual identity. They ultimately get divorced because their wives realize how dysfunctional they are sexually towards them, or other reasons. Hence the term "coming out of the closet".

I agree, Homosexuality is not a choice that people make counsciously. It's just that they are attracted to people of same sex. This is why I think talking to these people won't change them. Especially hitting, using a belt won't do anything.

I'd have to side with FriendlyPA and executive on this one. Mne lichno ih zhalko.
Therefore if my kid, G-d forbid, told me of his abnormal sexual preference, I would try to first try to "convert" him, and if that was out of the question - I'd have to accept him as is.

it's definately not pleasant news...

I'd have to side with FriendlyPA and executive on this one. Mne lichno ih zhalko.
Therefore if my kid, G-d forbid, told me of his abnormal sexual preference, I would try to first try to "convert" him, and if that was out of the question - I'd have to accept him as is.
ya staboy NYD

How can you speak of something when you don’t have the slightest understanding of what those people feeling or going through? It is very easy to judge someone when you don't know anything about them. In order to understand a person you must put yourself in their place. But then again, may be you don’t have the desire to understand, but may be you simply aim to execute the rules that you have been told were created by God.



Don't get me wrong, I do believe in God, but I am skeptical of many things that one person passes to the next. I don't know may be if I was a male I would have been more accepting of these religious law. But seeing how women supposed to be treated in comparison to men, does not allow me to believe that God would do something like that. Or may be I simply have different concept of God, then you do. :/

wat do u mean how women r supposed to be treated in comparison to men? in judaism, the women r diamonds, treated with great respect.

Okay everyone, so we come to this conclusion since we cannot change each other's minds. I STRONGLY feel that they have a choice in being gay. u feel that its a birth defect. stick to ur opinion and ill stick to mine.
G-d forbid that such kids should be born to us.

Okay everyone, so we come to this conclusion since we cannot change each other's minds. I STRONGLY feel that they have a choice in being gay. u feel that its a birth defect. stick to ur opinion and ill stick to mine.
G-d forbid that such kids should be born to us.

If homosexual individuals had a choice, then I would assume any heterosexual people would have a choice too. In light of this, OceanofMemories, I have a question for you. If you believe that people have a choice, and assuming that you are heterosexual, do you think you can change and be a homosexual? If you can't at the moment, can you identify a situation (your surrounding for example) in which you might be able to change?

A choice assumes that you can change back and forth. You can be heterosexual today, with certain influences of the society you can become a homosexual tomorow, and heterosexual again in a year. Can you see this happening? If you can't, then I see no reason why anyone should have a choice at their sexual orientation.

hmmmmm, who is writing it?
do you really want to know??? if so dear, its by Faloncha Yovugirov :love25:

If homosexual individuals had a choice, then I would assume any heterosexual people would have a choice too. In light of this, OceanofMemories, I have a question for you. If you believe that people have a choice, and assuming that you are heterosexual, do you think you can change and be a homosexual? If you can't at the moment, can you identify a situation (your surrounding for example) in which you might be able to change?

A choice assumes that you can change back and forth. You can be heterosexual today, with certain influences of the society you can become a homosexual tomorow, and heterosexual again in a year. Can you see this happening? If you can't, then I see no reason why anyone should have a choice at their sexual orientation.

BRAVO!! Very well put! Excellent scenario. :happy65:

well what can I say
"some people are heterosexual
some are bisexual
some are homosexual
some dont think about sex at all, and they become lawyers"

from the film "Love and Death"

well...its all whats in ur head. if i say that loving another woman is pleasureable and i accept that into my thoughts, then it will be and ill be able to be a lesbian.

anything can be made into pleasure or pain. i can say that getting hit in the head is pleasure. i enjoy it. whoever said it was pain? only the person himself decides that and he cant answer for others.
any thought can be changed. now if Hashem says that being gay is not allowed and i was a guy and i had "feelings", i would find a way to change.

well...its all whats in ur head. if i say that loving another woman is pleasureable and i accept that into my thoughts, then it will be and ill be able to be a lesbian.

anything can be made into pleasure or pain. i can say that getting hit in the head is pleasure. i enjoy it. whoever said it was pain? only the person himself decides that and he cant answer for others.
any thought can be changed. now if Hashem says that being gay is not allowed and i was a guy and i had "feelings", i would find a way to change.

Hypotheticaly, let's assume today Hashem said that homosexuality is not only allowed, but required. Let's assume that he said that heterosexuality is wrong. Can you see youself changing to becoming a homosexual? And I guess more importantly, what would you do to change yourself?

well...its all whats in ur head. if i say that loving another woman is pleasureable and i accept that into my thoughts, then it will be and ill be able to be a lesbian.

anything can be made into pleasure or pain. i can say that getting hit in the head is pleasure. i enjoy it. whoever said it was pain? only the person himself decides that and he cant answer for others.
any thought can be changed. now if Hashem says that being gay is not allowed and i was a guy and i had "feelings", i would find a way to change.

Better yet, imagine if our government was ruled according to the Torah including corporal, and capital punishment. And now imagine you were sadly born as a homosexual. You know what that would mean? You'd have to be stoned to death..Yeap, wouldn't that just be too bad for you? I am sure this happens in Iran every day.

Better yet, imagine if our government was ruled according to the Torah including corporal, and capital punishment.
Our Torah writes that our sages should establish a Jewish Court in their government called Bait Din (The House of Judgment). This Court is responsible for enforcing a Jewish law in the land of Israel. What you are saying is so ironic. Our U.S Government is being ruled by capital punishment, so I don’t have to imagine what it is like being ruled by such a government. The ironic part is that Israel which is a state of Jewish people, who are known for stringency and capital punishment, is probably the only state in the world which does not have capital punishment.


And now imagine you were sadly born as a homosexual. You know what that would mean? You'd have to be stoned to death..Yeap, wouldn't that just be too bad for you? I am sure this happens in Iran every day.
Torah does not permit stoning of homosexuals unless they are caught in the act. Anyways, I am curious, why do you support gays? Are you gay? :love10:

Our Torah writes that our sages should establish a Jewish Court in their government called Bait Din (The House of Judgment). This Court is responsible for enforcing a Jewish law in the land of Israel. What you are saying is so ironic. Our U.S Government is being ruled by capital punishment, so I don’t have to imagine what it is like being ruled by such a government. The ironic part is that Israel which is a state of Jewish people, who are known for stringency and capital punishment, is probably the only state in the world which does not have capital punishment.



Torah does not permit stoning of homosexuals unless they are caught in the act. Anyways, I am curious, why do you support gays? Are you gay? :love10:

I don't support them buddy, I feel sorry for them. I learned never to criticize anyone, because those who do ironically face these situations in their own life. Would you want G-d to send you a gay child as a result of your biased criticisms? My point is:

We can't change them
we can't kill them
So leave them.

Prostitution is illegal also, yet it is still flourishing and happening. Same would be with the homosexual community. So by critisizing them and ridiculing them, we are only calling this curse upon our own selves.. Avoid it. End of story. Say G-d forbid a hundred times..

And no I'm not gay, I'm as straight as a ruler.

Our Torah writes that our sages should establish a Jewish Court in their government called Bait Din (The House of Judgment). This Court is responsible for enforcing a Jewish law in the land of Israel. What you are saying is so ironic. Our U.S Government is being ruled by capital punishment, so I don’t have to imagine what it is like being ruled by such a government. The ironic part is that Israel which is a state of Jewish people, who are known for stringency and capital punishment, is probably the only state in the world which does not have capital punishment.



Torah does not permit stoning of homosexuals unless they are caught in the act. Anyways, I am curious, why do you support gays? Are you gay? :love10:

Continuing from above:
So your saying the Humash states certain punishments but at the same time Torah permited Jews to establish a court system based on other laws?? Israel today is an ultra-democracy that is disgracefull. There laws permit Gay parades in the middle of Jerusalem. I think our redneck American states have more stringent laws than all of Israel. So its one huge contradiction isnt it?

What I meant by corporal and capital punishment is how Iran is ruled by their Koran. Ok, so if an underground "gay house" was raided by authorities under such rule, all of the people found in the act would be stoned to death correct?

Hypotheticaly, let's assume today Hashem said that homosexuality is not only allowed, but required. Let's assume that he said that heterosexuality is wrong. Can you see youself changing to becoming a homosexual? And I guess more importantly, what would you do to change yourself?

first of all, we have feelings for the opposite sex. thats what Torah requires. anybody who chooses differently is responsible for themselves and will answer for their mistake after they die. homosexuality is wrong, and there r reasons y. heterosexuality is not.......there r no reasons for it to be wrong.
Hashem would never say that, but lets say if He did, then i would have to change. its all in a persons head. u can make ANYTHING be pleasure or pain. its all about how u take it and about how ur brain works.

Better yet, imagine if our government was ruled according to the Torah including corporal, and capital punishment. And now imagine you were sadly born as a homosexual. You know what that would mean? You'd have to be stoned to death..Yeap, wouldn't that just be too bad for you? I am sure this happens in Iran every day.

there is no such thing as being born gay. u make that choice later on. if u would only listen to some seminars ive been listening to lately about self improvement and human behavior, u would realize that its all in ur power. u r in charge of ur feelings, not the other way around. u create ur state.
listen to anthony robbins seminars. it is not even in the religious perspective. its secular point of view.

I don't support them buddy, I feel sorry for them. I learned never to criticize anyone, because those who do ironically face these situations in their own life. Would you want G-d to send you a gay child as a result of your biased criticisms? My point is:

We can't change them
we can't kill them
So leave them.

Prostitution is illegal also, yet it is still flourishing and happening. Same would be with the homosexual community. So by critisizing them and ridiculing them, we are only calling this curse upon our own selves.. Avoid it. End of story. Say G-d forbid a hundred times..

And no I'm not gay, I'm as straight as a ruler.


and just like prostitutes, gay ppl will be responsible for answering to G-d y they did the things they did. the answer "u created me that way" is not a good answer because it was their responsibility to take control of their lives, no matter how hard it is because that is what Hashem wants. thats what he said in the Torah. we r not allowed, so that means that its the yetzer hara and it can be controlled. if it was COMPLETELY unable to be controlled or changed (like mentally disabled people), then Hashem would not have made that rule. G-d only requires of us and commands us because He knows we can do it.
Being created "in the image of G-d" gives u a lot of power when it comes to anything. u can never blame others or ur surroundings for y u r not religious. u were created in His image. u have a part of his shechina in u. there is nothing that can stop u from reaching ur goal.
in the direction that a human being wishes to go, G-d helps him. that means to the good side AND to the bad side.

Continuing from above:
So your saying the Humash states certain punishments but at the same time Torah permited Jews to establish a court system based on other laws?? Israel today is an ultra-democracy that is disgracefull. There laws permit Gay parades in the middle of Jerusalem. I think our redneck American states have more stringent laws than all of Israel. So its one huge contradiction isnt it?

What I meant by corporal and capital punishment is how Iran is ruled by their Koran. Ok, so if an underground "gay house" was raided by authorities under such rule, all of the people found in the act would be stoned to death correct?

well, r the people who r in the government righteous and G-d fearing?
obviously, they wont carry out the laws of the Torah is they dont even care about it.

first of all, we have feelings for the opposite sex. thats what Torah requires. anybody who chooses differently is responsible for themselves and will answer for their mistake after they die. homosexuality is wrong, and there r reasons y. heterosexuality is not.......there r no reasons for it to be wrong.
Hashem would never say that, but lets say if He did, then i would have to change. its all in a persons head. u can make ANYTHING be pleasure or pain. its all about how u take it and about how ur brain works.

I guess you made your point, and I now understand it pretty well. All I am saying is that those who are gay have same feelings towards the same sex people as you and I would have towards the opposite sex. I can't see myself changing that (even if it was required by law). Maybe my brain is still too small, and doesn't work the way it should.

In no way, am i supporting homosexuality, all i'm trying to do is understand why these people might be gay, and try to be openminded to them.

I guess you made your point, and I now understand it pretty well. All I am saying is that those who are gay have same feelings towards the same sex people as you and I would have towards the opposite sex. I can't see myself changing that (even if it was required by law). Maybe my brain is still too small, and doesn't work the way it should.

In no way, am i supporting homosexuality, all i'm trying to do is understand why these people might be gay, and try to be openminded to them.

thanks. i hope u really do get it. ur brain is never too small. u should download a 30 day program called "personal power" by anthony robbins. its amazing. it will teach u how to control ur brain, so that u can do anything. there will be no such thing as, "i cant do that." it will be like, "ooo i can do that, lets c how i can go about it."
its really cool. i recommend it to EVERYONE.

thanks. i hope u really do get it. ur brain is never too small. u should download a 30 day program called "personal power" by anthony robbins. its amazing. it will teach u how to control ur brain, so that u can do anything. there will be no such thing as, "i cant do that." it will be like, "ooo i can do that, lets c how i can go about it."
its really cool. i recommend it to EVERYONE.

I'm a lazy guy. Why don't you watch the program, and then teach me what it says. Do we have a deal? :cerenad:

I'm a lazy guy. Why don't you read the book, and then teach me what it says. Do we have a deal? :cerenad:

no, no deal. its not a book. its tapes. about 45 min a day. i cant teach it to u. to get the full effect, u need to hear it urself because he explains it a certain way. i wouldnt be able to tell it over like him.
also, u have to want to change. if u dont WANT to change, then there is no point of listening to these tapes. it will require u to take action.

and by the way, ur not lazy. u only let urself believe that u r lazy. u can immediately tell ur brain that ur full of energy, stand up straight and tall with a smile, and get to doing watever u want. its all in ur head. ;)

no, no deal. its not a book. its tapes. about 45 min a day. i cant teach it to u. to get the full effect, u need to hear it urself because he explains it a certain way. i wouldnt be able to tell it over like him.
also, u have to want to change. if u dont WANT to change, then there is no point of listening to these tapes. it will require u to take action.

and by the way, ur not lazy. u only let urself believe that u r lazy. u can immediately tell ur brain that ur full of energy, stand up straight and tall with a smile, and get to doing watever u want. its all in ur head. ;)

How many days do I have to do this?

How many days do I have to do this?

take it with a positive reaction. this is something great.
its only for 30 days. i promise that if u do this the right way, u will learn
sooooooooo much. i only did the 1st day, and im already different than i was before. it will open ur eyes. make u aware of everything u need to be aware of in life because really thats wat its all about, AWARENESS.

take it with a positive reaction. this is something great.
its only for 30 days. i promise that if u do this the right way, u will learn
sooooooooo much. i only did the 1st day, and im already different than i was before. it will open ur eyes. make u aware of everything u need to be aware of in life because really thats wat its all about, AWARENESS.
indeed! dude, if did it, you can definately do it! :innoc04:

there is no such thing as being born gay. u make that choice later on. if u would only listen to some seminars ive been listening to lately about self improvement and human behavior, u would realize that its all in ur power. u r in charge of ur feelings, not the other way around. u create ur state.
listen to anthony robbins seminars. it is not even in the religious perspective. its secular point of view.

What do motivational tapes and seminars have to do with innate sexual preference? Once again your looking at homosexuality as some kind of perverted unusuall sexual fetish, when in it is NOT, especially when it comes to gay men. Show any normal male a video of gay sex and they will literally vomit in front of it.
To be able to go thru with something so drastic as that, you either have to have a serious mental disorder or it MUST BE CONGENITAL. The second option has been proven!!

Are you aware the entire human genome has been decoded? They have identified the gene for homosexuality.

Show any normal male a video of gay sex and they will literally vomit in front of it.
lol! This rminds me of sothing which happend years ago with someone I know...

Anthony Robbins is a @#%&$. Go with Deepak Chopra instead. Robbins thinks everyone is as super-human and egotistical as himself..

What do motivational tapes and seminars have to do with innate sexual preference?

Let's not touch the motivational tapes. They are for the lazy people like me!!! They are not made to make you gay or strait.

What do motivational tapes and seminars have to do with innate sexual preference? Once again your looking at homosexuality as some kind of perverted unusuall sexual fetish, when in it is NOT, especially when it comes to gay men. Show any normal male a video of gay sex and they will literally vomit in front of it.
To be able to go thru with something so drastic as that, you either have to have a serious mental disorder or it MUST BE CONGENITAL. The second option has been proven!!

Are you aware the entire human genome has been decoded? They have identified the gene for homosexuality.

executive, i am no longer willing to prove my point to u because u believe that being gay is not a choice. i STRONGLY KNOW that it is.
these seminars are about human behavior. thats y they have something to do with this topic :)

Anthony Robbins is a @#%&$. Go with Deepak Chopra instead. Robbins thinks everyone is as super-human and egotistical as himself..

u can call him whatever u want. that wont get u anywhere, will it?

first of all, we have feelings for the opposite sex. thats what Torah requires. anybody who chooses differently is responsible for themselves and will answer for their mistake after they die. homosexuality is wrong, and there r reasons y. heterosexuality is not.......there r no reasons for it to be wrong.
Hashem would never say that, but lets say if He did, then i would have to change. its all in a persons head. u can make ANYTHING be pleasure or pain. its all about how u take it and about how ur brain works.

I'm sure Mr. Robbins would be against the suppression of true desires and urges. This can cause severe resentment and depression eventually. Its like trying to be ultra orthodox without seeing the light. Many couples/families/individuals do that, and eventually drive themselves to major depression and suicidle behaviour.

Tell me one thing, the Torah mentions impure thoughts, even in regards to heterosexuality. What makes them "impure"? What if a gay man cannot get aroused and errect on the female he married, is he supposed to stay single all his life and further break commandments by not procreating?

Your brain isn't in philosophical mode, if it was, you would ask yourself these questions wayyy before posting such narrow-minded responses :). No offense my dear.

I'm sure Mr. Robbins would be against the suppression of true desires and urges. This can cause severe resentment and depression eventually. Its like trying to be ultra orthodox without seeing the light. Many couples/families/individuals do that, and eventually drive themselves to major depression and suicidle behaviour.

Tell me one thing, the Torah mentions impure thoughts, even in regards to heterosexuality. What makes them "impure"? What if a gay man cannot get aroused and errect on the female he married, is he supposed to stay single all his life and further break commandments by not procreating?

Your brain isn't in philosophical mode, if it was, you would ask yourself these questions wayyy before posting such narrow-minded responses :). No offense my dear.

again, ur not understanding me. u keep asking me questions as if being gay is a disease. im telling u that its a choice and he can control his choice.

by the way, there is no such thing as depression either. again its all in ur head, and it can be controlled.

we are told to watch our thoughts. thoughts lead to action. i dont know if thats the reason the Torah tells us to keep away from impure thoughts. butas many lectures as ive heard, rabbis say that ur responsible for those too.

again, ur not understanding me. u keep asking me questions as if being gay is a disease. im telling u that its a choice and he can control his choice.

by the way, there is no such thing as depression either. again its all in ur head, and it can be controlled.

we are told to watch our thoughts. thoughts lead to action. i dont know if thats the reason the Torah tells us to keep away from impure thoughts. butas many lectures as ive heard, rabbis say that ur responsible for those too.

And I'm telling you that what your saying is your oppinion and from a guy who is older and more knowledgable than you in medicine, philosophy and science, I am INFORMING you my dear. In that case, your current behavior is called being stubborn.
By the way, your obviously not aware that the term "depression" in this country is used much too broadly. There is something called nervous over exhaustion, Neurasthenia, "Burn out", post traumatic stress.. Such dysfunctions are no longer "in your head" as you quickly brush it off. They are biochemical disbalances caused my severe exhaustion, malnutrition, and/or emotional trauma. At that point its a psycho-physiological disorder, which is both biochemical in nature as well as behavioral and mental. PET scans prove that blood flow and neurotransmitters are altered by behavioral changes. Neurotransmitters have hundreds of thousands of roles in our bodies that can effect every process in our systems. Everything is interdependant. A rotten body cannot have an optimum mind and a dysfunctional mind cannot have an optimum body.
Treating something like that is only successful with both physiological and psychological approaches. Your being way too biased and close minded, but its obviously from your lack of experiencing such events in your own life that you have this type of point of view.

again, ur not understanding me. u keep asking me questions as if being gay is a disease. im telling u that its a choice and he can control his choice.

by the way, there is no such thing as depression either. again its all in ur head, and it can be controlled.

we are told to watch our thoughts. thoughts lead to action. i dont know if thats the reason the Torah tells us to keep away from impure thoughts. butas many lectures as ive heard, rabbis say that ur responsible for those too.

What if an "impure" thought is the only way you can become aroused enough to attempt and reproduce with your spouse??

Just a side note. Medicine is a science, and just like in any science, in medicine there are no absolutes. The word "never" or "always" is extremely rare in medicine and are probably true in 1% or even less of disease states. Because this is a case, in many cases even medical science is not sure what the right answer is. This is true in the issues of homosexuality, depression and many others. We can not say that 1 theory is always true and it's 100% guaranteed. As such, all we're left with is guesswork (based on some empirical data) of what's really going on. This is the reason that in such cases as these, multiple theories exist, and they all make sense. What we need to do is be slightly more openminded to what others say, and hope that 1 day the real truth will be discovered.

Just a side note. Medicine is a science, and just like in any science, in medicine there are no absolutes. The word "never" or "always" is extremely rare in medicine and are probably true in 1% or even less of disease states. Because this is a case, in many cases even medical science is not sure what the right answer is. This is true in the issues of homosexuality, depression and many others. We can not say that 1 theory is always true and it's 100% guaranteed. As such, all we're left with is guesswork (based on some empirical data) of what's really going on. This is the reason that in such cases as these, multiple theories exist, and they all make sense. What we need to do is be slightly more openminded to what others say, and hope that 1 day the real truth will be discovered.


I fully agree with you.. My point was that nothing should be so quickly labeled, and dismissed as being a simple "choice" or "its all in the head".

I was reading through this tread, and I just felt like I needed to add a new voice to this messy topic of yours...
Everyone who tries to answer this question should first consider the place you live in, your surounding and your up bringing...with a little twist you will realize that this world has changed a lot and on top of that so have the people.
I believe that to be gay or lesbian has a few factors... some having to do with inheritance of the gene, upbringing, and sometimes even friends. But there are cases were this type of characteristic in a person could not be changed but just accepted.
To get strait to the point... will it be sad that my son or daugher will be "different"...sure...but I will allow it..because i don't believe that there is away to turn it back...he or she will be the only one who can make that decision.
where there is a will there is a way.
Plus everyone should except their kids....look at it this way, you ain't perfect and your parents love you :)

I was reading through this tread, and I just felt like I needed to add a new voice to this messy topic of yours...
Everyone who tries to answer this question should first consider the place you live in, your surounding and your up bringing...with a little twist you will realize that this world has changed a lot and on top of that so have the people.
I believe that to be gay or lesbian has a few factors... some having to do with inheritance of the gene, upbringing, and sometimes even friends. But there are cases were this type of characteristic in a person could not be changed but just accepted.
To get strait to the point... will it be sad that my son or daugher will be "different"...sure...but I will allow it..because i don't believe that there is away to turn it back...he or she will be the only one who can make that decision.
where there is a will there is a way.
Plus everyone should except their kids....look at it this way, you ain't perfect and your parents love you :)
agreed, but will you mind raising your children in a home that is exposed to or tolerant of homosexuality (even in the most minute form)?

agreed, but will you mind raising your children in a home that is exposed to or tolerant of homosexuality (even in the most minute form)?

I guess I speak from my upbringing in New York for many years and have worked and know many people who are homosexual...personally, I enjoy their company, and I think they are just like everyone else except that they prefer a different life style with that "special someone". I am no one to judge them or they me. So NO I won't mind raising my child if he/she is tolerant of homosexuality. As long as my children have good hearts and good people, ... and if I can't alter their minds away in any way, shape, or form from homosexuality, than so be it...i will still be a mother and that won't change.

How would you react if you realize that your kid is gay?


kill him:)

kill him:)
lol, physicaly... :conf:

Ok, in that case Hashem also granted us FREE WILL. So free will allows people to get sex change operations as well as chose the sexual partner they NATURALLY crave... You should really stop thinking solely like a brain-washed Jew and more like an open minded Philosopher..No offense please.

Free will is given to u not to do whatever you wish, but to grow spiritually and socially by resisting the inclination to the bad side. Free will has its own consequences. There is no real choice, there is only an illusion of it. You are told that you can do whatever you want but in case you do what is not right in the eyes of Hashem you are punished (sooner or later). :innoc04:

Homosexuals are born, not made. There is no real point in discussing such a question, because ultimately the childs/individuals sexual preferance cannot be changed.


Another one that bought into their political argument..tsk tsk tsk :conf:

Pardon me for taking it to such extremes, but where is the prove that God asked that of people? Are you sure that it was exactly what he wanted? Considering that people interpret Torah, how can you be sure that it is interpreted the way God intended for it to be understood? After all people are only people and have been known for corruption and dishonesty.

The torah is not being "interpreted." When it was given, there already was a written one and the oral one (not to be confused with the "Monica" style ;-) ). When the sages of the generation in Babylon realized that there is going on a massacre of the sages and learned in Judaism people, a need to write the oral law arose. However, to make sure that ALL was written down, they needed to open the discussion on the pieces that are very complex. It is shown, nevertheless, that the tradition of the oral law is unbroken by the way of listing of individuals who was in the chain of keeping and transmitting this law before it was put to writing. That chain is listed in the beginning of Pirkey Avot.

about wasting seed, yes it is a huge sin. if only people knew about it and cared about the halacha.

Easy for you to say lady :happy05:

Wy do people care so much about others sexual orientation? Is it the fear that if homosexuality is allowed they may be tempted to "try it out" themselves? It's a personal choice and as long as they are not committing the act in public, it's alright with me. WHats with the homophobia? Many are pretty chill people whom I respect fully.

Although the idea of a homosexual act is repulsive to me, someone else is undoubtedly turned on by it. People should really learn to be responsible for themselves and their own "souls", no need to try to "save" others.

She thinks being Gay is a choice, thats the major problem. You cannot compare homosexuality with infidelity or adultery for example. Homosexuality is a programmed genetic defect and these people are cursed with having an inborn desire for the same sex partner. They donot choose to be different, in many cases they were closet cases, married women against there will masking their true sexual identity. They ultimately get divorced because their wives realize how dysfunctional they are sexually towards them, or other reasons. Hence the term "coming out of the closet".

:knockflow

G-d forbid if i ever came out of my closet :love14: ...there is no chance in the world i would be seduced by your deformed popka. Your arguments are so lame - based solely on hearsay of make belief researches.

I guess I speak from my upbringing in New York for many years and have worked and know many people who are homosexual...personally, I enjoy their company, and I think they are just like everyone else except that they prefer a different life style with that "special someone". I am no one to judge them or they me. So NO I won't mind raising my child if he/she is tolerant of homosexuality. As long as my children have good hearts and good people, ... and if I can't alter their minds away in any way, shape, or form from homosexuality, than so be it...i will still be a mother and that won't change. Thank you!!!!I could not have said it better myself.:happy65:

Wy do people care so much about others sexual orientation? Is it the fear that if homosexuality is allowed they may be tempted to "try it out" themselves? It's a personal choice and as long as they are not committing the act in public, it's alright with me. WHats with the homophobia? Many are pretty chill people whom I respect fully.

Although the idea of a homosexual act is repulsive to me, someone else is undoubtedly turned on by it. People should really learn to be responsible for themselves and their own "souls", no need to try to "save" others.

well, the lesbo action does turn us on...and hey, it is legal :love26:

Hypotheticaly, let's assume today Hashem said that homosexuality is not only allowed, but required. Let's assume that he said that heterosexuality is wrong. Can you see youself changing to becoming a homosexual? And I guess more importantly, what would you do to change yourself?

I dont see any reason why not :innoc04:

I would find myself a rich handsome parnishka to poke from behind from time to time. As long as my choice is the right one by morality standards i have no problem with this ;) ... DO YOU???

I'd have to side with FriendlyPA and executive on this one. Mne lichno ih zhalko.
Therefore if my kid, G-d forbid, told me of his abnormal sexual preference, I would try to first try to "convert" him, and if that was out of the question - I'd have to accept him as is.

That is sad to hear NYD, if g-d forbid your child is reduculed by his peers as retarded, would you ever stop trying to convince him/her that it is not true. Would you say, "I accept, you ARE a retard?", while all it will do is to reafirm his/her fears and instill in him/her acceptance of the concept "education is worthless unless u r already smart"???

I dont see any reason why not :innoc04:

I would find myself a rich handsome parnishka to poke from behind from time to time. As long as my choice is the right one by morality standards i have no problem with this ;) ... DO YOU???

So in other words if at this moment you will be forced to live among muslims you will follow their morals?

It's kind of difficult to build an argument based on morality, considering that what we consider moral/our free will is pretty much internalized culture. Because the fact is, our "free will" is influenced by our morality, which in turn is influenced by surrounding culture.

But I guess what I tried to say was, that you will do that what is moral, disregarding everything else?

What if an "impure" thought is the only way you can become aroused enough to attempt and reproduce with your spouse??

You seem to be knowledgeable of biology and psychology. I expect that you should know then that the psychological state during sex and pregnancy has a profound affect on the child’s development. So no, you cannot think of someone else or imagine your fetishes during sex if you wish your child to be normal
:love70:

You seem to be knowledgeable of biology and psychology. I expect that you should know then that the psychological state during sex and pregnancy has a profound affect on the child’s development. So no, you cannot think of someone else or imagine your fetishes during sex if you wish your child to be normal
:love70:

wow, interesting, I never thought about it.

hhmm, i guess because i don't have sex. But i sure will try to remember this. hehheheh.

That is sad to hear NYD, if g-d forbid your child is reduculed by his peers as retarded, would you ever stop trying to convince him/her that it is not true. Would you say, "I accept, you ARE a retard?", while all it will do is to reafirm his/her fears and instill in him/her acceptance of the concept "education is worthless unless u r already smart"???

I will not be the parent that disowns my child on that basis. If anything, I'd probably blame myself knowing what I know about biological factors.

If my child is satisfied with his sexuality and can't picture himself as anything else, then that's that. Reasoning and pleas will only go so far. And if you believe that nature is a strong contributor, like I do, you can't really reeducate someone to be heterosexual - you either got the instinct to boogie down with the other sex or you don't. I would try my best to ask him to repress his urges and do what's normal but the final decision is up to him. I'd rather see my child happy and if I continually breathe down his neck and tell him look at that hot girl, marry this one, stop being a homo, etc...that will only cause him to resent me.

Easy for you to say lady :happy05:

yea i know, because im not a guy :)

hey we ladies have it hard too. we have to give birth.

Ya dumau eto zavisit ot vospitaniya rebenka. Na dani moment, 90% gay people stanovyatsya takimi during the life period ( zhizn menyaet ), razhdautsya takimi ne bolshoi procent.