Who's to say whats good and whats evil?

That is a subjective answer to everyone's reply. It's like saying, who's to say she is pretty or ugly. To some she might be considered beautiful, some gorgeous, some pretty, some ok, and to some she might even be considered the "plain-Jane" type

Saint Augustnine explains that G-d is perfectly good and that all things come from Him. Because G-d in His goodness cannot create anything evil, it follows that evil cannot be a positive characteristic of things. However, the things that G-d created are less than wholly good, and they are evil only insofar as they lack goodness. There are different degrees of goodness. If you remove goodness completely then the essence itself does not exist.

I am not sure if this what Augustine says is correct according to Talmud. Our sages teach that G-d created "day" and "night" and that night is a creation and not the absence of day (light).

I don't know if you can apply this to Good vs Evil? If you can say that day equals good and night equals evil then Augustine is 100% wrong because evil would be a creation just like night is. But if they are not equal then there is a possibility that he is right.

Saint Augustnine explains that G-d is perfectly good and that all things come from Him. Because G-d in His goodness cannot create anything evil, it follows that evil cannot be a positive characteristic of things. However, the things that G-d created are less than wholly good, and they are evil only insofar as they lack goodness. There are different degrees of goodness. If you remove goodness completely then the essence itself does not exist.

I am not sure if this what Augustine says is correct according to Talmud. Our sages teach that G-d created "day" and "night" and that night is a creation and not the absence of day (light).

I don't know if you can apply this to Good vs Evil? If you can say that day equals good and night equals evil then Augustine is 100% wrong because evil would be a creation just like night is. But if they are not equal then there is a possibility that he is right.

The question is: Who created Evil? If G-d in G-d's Goodness can only create Good, and if G-d is the creator of everything and anything, then isn't Evil a creation of G-d? If so, and if the first part is to hold true, wouldn't it mean that Evil can't be Evil as it has Goodness in at least the degree necessary to make it Good?

Paradox poluchayet'sya.

The question is: Who created Evil? If G-d in G-d's Goodness can only create Good, and if G-d is the creator of everything and anything, then isn't Evil a creation of G-d? If so, and if the first part is to hold true, wouldn't it mean that Evil can't be Evil as it has Goodness in at least the degree necessary to make it Good?

Paradox poluchayet'sya.
why couldn't have G-d created evil? didn't he create milchamoh (war)?

The question is: Who created Evil? If G-d in G-d's Goodness can only create Good, and if G-d is the creator of everything and anything, then isn't Evil a creation of G-d? If so, and if the first part is to hold true, wouldn't it mean that Evil can't be Evil as it has Goodness in at least the degree necessary to make it Good?

Paradox poluchayet'sya.

It is not a paradox. You have just rephrased what Augustine said, that evil is not evil, but just lesser degree of goodness. And when goodness reaches a degree of no goodness at all, then that object does not exist. When G-d created the world he said "And it was all good." If you will read Beraishit you will see that on one day he said "And it was good" once and at another day he said "And it was good" twice. It means that there are varying degrees of good. If goodness approaches zero then it is termed evil.

why couldn't have G-d created evil? didn't he create milchamoh (war)?

But is the claim that "war" is ALL Evil?

But if the claim is that Evil is ALL Evil and, simultaneously (look at the Aragorn's post), the claim is that G-d doesn't create anything that is purely Evil, then the conclusion one would have to come up with, it looks like, one of the following:

1) G-d didn't create Evil; // this would contradict the claim that G-d is the creator of everything and anything;
2) Evil is not all Evil. // this would contradict the claim that Evil is Evil;

/* please don't mind the comment style -- I've been in programming for a while now. :) */

It is not a paradox. You have just rephrased what Augustine said, that evil is not evil, but just lesser degree of goodness. And when goodness reaches a degree of no goodness at all, then that object does not exist. When G-d created the world he said "And it was all good." If you will read Beraishit you will see that on one day he said "And it was good" once and at another day he said "And it was good" twice. It means that there are varying degrees of good. If goodness approaches zero then it is termed evil.

No, I did no such thing. Nor could I have -- I made no claim, but merely posed question.

Also, even if we were to assume that I did make that claim, it'd still be not the case: as I said that the claim is that G-d is the creator of everything and anything, but if Evil is the lack of Goodness, who created the "lack" or "emptiness"?

But the guy might be onto something: can there be 100% Evil? or is there, inherently, at least some Goodness in any Evil?

But is the claim that "war" is ALL Evil?

But if the claim is that Evil is ALL Evil and, simultaneously (look at the Aragorn's post), the claim is that G-d doesn't create anything that is purely Evil, then the conclusion one would have to come up with, it looks like, one of the following:

1) G-d didn't create Evil; // this would contradict the claim that G-d is the creator of everything and anything;
2) Evil is not all Evil. // this would contradict the claim that Evil is Evil;

/* please don't mind the comment style -- I've been in programming for a while now. :) */
you completely lost me :confused:

you completely lost me :confused:

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Disclaimer: If you fail to understand any of the brilliant points which I've made, that's ok -- don't worry about it. :happy08:

Read TheGreatOne's disclaimer

Disclaimer: If you fail to understand any of the brilliant points which I've made, that's ok -- don't worry about it. :happy08:
lol :happy65:

It's not actually a paradox. Althouth there is satan, Judaism believes that his only God's angel and not some powerful creature opposite of God. There is only one Creator in this world - God. Everything is his work, whether it's good or evil and has its own purpose. Of course, the main goal is to promote good. Evil exists mainly to give humans a choice. As much as we want it to be gone, just imagine for a moment if there was no evil in this world. There would be no life.

Back when I was in highschool, one of my buddies came up with a simple formula for life:

Quality of Life = Good/Evil
The less evil and more good the better life. No evil - division by zero is not allowed. :sign63:

It means that there are varying degrees of good. If goodness approaches zero then it is termed evil.

I use calculus and and limits (Number--->0) to understand the relationship between good and evil.


Back when I was in highschool, one of my buddies came up with a simple formula for life:

Quality of Life = Good/Evil
The less evil and more good the better life. No evil - division by zero is not allowed. :sign63:
You use basic arithmetic formula to understand this relationship. :happy65:

But is the claim that "war" is ALL Evil?

But if the claim is that Evil is ALL Evil and, simultaneously (look at the Aragorn's post), the claim is that G-d doesn't create anything that is purely Evil, then the conclusion one would have to come up with, it looks like, one of the following:

1) G-d didn't create Evil; // this would contradict the claim that G-d is the creator of everything and anything;
2) Evil is not all Evil. // this would contradict the claim that Evil is Evil;

/* please don't mind the comment style -- I've been in programming for a while now. :) */

lol yea i was gong to suggest that we do proofs from math. I used to like it.

if p= night is a creation on its own and
q=light is a creation on its own
then is this statement trueor false: where there is no light, there is a night

btw is night and darkness mean the same thing in the torah?

btw is night and darkness mean the same thing in the torah?

In bereishit it says, "Elokim called the light day, and the darkness He called night." So Hosheh (Darkness) is Layla (Night). :happy65:

It's not actually a paradox. Althouth there is satan, Judaism believes that his only God's angel and not some powerful creature opposite of God. There is only one Creator in this world - God. Everything is his work, whether it's good or evil and has its own purpose. Of course, the main goal is to promote good. Evil exists mainly to give humans a choice. As much as we want it to be gone, just imagine for a moment if there was no evil in this world. There would be no life.

Back when I was in highschool, one of my buddies came up with a simple formula for life:

Quality of Life = Good/Evil
The less evil and more good the better life. No evil - division by zero is not allowed. :sign63:

While interesting, wouldn't this formula suggest that Good is (or can be) a function of Evil??? Wouldn't it mean there is some strong correlation between the two?

It suggests the following formulae:
1) Good = Quality of Life * Evil
2) Evil = Good / Quality of Life

Are you, then, suggesting that Good is created at the same instance as Evil? If not, wouldn't it mean that Good is later diminished when Evil is introduced (look at formula)? If Good is not diminished, wouldn't it mean that some of it is in Evil if we were to assume the law of preservance of Good? (otherwise, it means either: 1) Good is diminished; or 2) Evil was created simultaneously with Good; and, therefore, since Good has been in existance forever, so was Evil!?)

If there's any Good in Evil, is it Evil then?

BTW, isn't this also suggesting that Quality of Life (see formula 2) should be given the opportunity to be explained on its own, just like Good and Evil are tried to be explained on their own?

lol yea i was gong to suggest that we do proofs from math. I used to like it.

if p= night is a creation on its own and
q=light is a creation on its own
then is this statement trueor false: where there is no light, there is a night

btw is night and darkness mean the same thing in the torah?

Math is good -- that's how G-d provides me with understanding about much around me (or so I calculate :) ).

While interesting, wouldn't this formula suggest that Good is (or can be) a function of Evil??? Wouldn't it mean there is some strong correlation between the two?

It suggests the following formulae:
1) Good = Quality of Life * Evil
2) Evil = Good / Quality of Life

Are you, then, suggesting that Good is created at the same instance as Evil? If not, wouldn't it mean that Good is later diminished when Evil is introduced (look at formula)? If Good is not diminished, wouldn't it mean that some of it is in Evil if we were to assume the law of preservance of Good? (otherwise, it means either: 1) Good is diminished; or 2) Evil was created simultaneously with Good; and, therefore, since Good has been in existance forever, so was Evil!?)

If there's any Good in Evil, is it Evil then?

BTW, isn't this also suggesting that Quality of Life (see formula 2) should be given the opportunity to be explained on its own, just like Good and Evil are tried to be explained on their own?
Yes. According to Jewish religion, Good and Evil were introduced at the same time just like all other opposites. In fact, people are born with good and evil inclinations. During life they make choices, which make one inclination dominate over the other.

To me it looks like a closed system. One increases/diminishes at the expense of the other.